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Article aside, scanning the comments, it is interesting to note the conditioned reluctance to admit the obvious, viz., that men and women are different, that th

Article aside, scanning the comments, it is interesting to note the conditioned reluctance to admit the obvious, viz., that men and women are different, that this difference is profound, and that this difference would manifest anatomically/physiologically, including the brain.

HN_is_for_gemes 3y ago
It'll be a generation before people can once again admit there is a difference between men and women. If we admit men and women are different its the same a direct attack on much of the LGBT community.
- gizmo686 3y ago
  The LGBT community is well aware that men and women are different. The existence of trans people is itself strong evidence if this. That is why the trans community is interested in gender affirming care.
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  No, it is an attack on much of the trans community. "The LGBT community" is in and of itself a part of this weird usage of group terminology to muddy the waters. It's pretty much a political device invented for that purpose - if you don't support all you support none, which is clearly ridiculous. For example, trans women not being permitted to compete in women's sports has exactly zero bearing on the life of gay men, and is actually in the interest of gay women.
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    And yet, gay men can be sympathetic to the needs and experiences of trans women. The LGBT community is, in part, built on bonds of similar experiences of ostracism by the larger society.
    - anusuyaceg 3y ago
      Why not add other marginalized group to LGBT if being marginalized is the only criteria?
      - Tagbert 3y ago
        I said part of the reason for association was a shared experience of ostracism. Another is being outside the mainstream in a sexual and gender sense. In recent years, there have been some efforts to tie racial justice into the LGBT identity, but that has been controversial as there is less alignment around issues. Black and brown bands were added to the rainbow flag as part of this, and that was also controversial. The feeling was that that flag was not originally racially focused.
      - nathan_compton 3y ago
        This is what you often see LGBTQ+ (the plus means anyone marginalized). Yes, it typically has to do with gender or sexual differences but that is pretty much marketing. It is easier to organize if you have a relatively clear community.
        Tagbert 3y ago
        Groups have always had ways to define who was part of the group whether that group was political, religious, or a group of gamers. Calling it "marketing" sounds a little dismissive.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > It’ll be a generation before people can once again admit there is a difference between men and women. If we admit men and women are different its the same a direct attack on much of the LGBT community. As phrased its…not, though. Each of the L, G, B, and T (well, perhaps not the B in all cases) relies pretty centrally on there being a difference between men and women. (Now, if you were to say, “‘men’ and ‘women’ are defined by gender externally ascribed on the basis of (at least notionally) immutable non-identity characteristics”, then that’s a different story, but that’s a lot different than “there are differences between men and women”.)
foxyv 3y ago
It depends on what aspect of men and women you mean. Socialization, biology, endocrinology, reproduction? Saying "Men and women are different" is an easily defendable conclusion. However, the implications that you are making from that regarding anatomy, physiology, and psychology are very hard to prove. There is significant overlap between men and women in each aspect. PS: This type of argument is called a Motte and Bailey. You provide two arguments, one weak and one strong then fall back to the strong argument when challenged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
Gibbon1 3y ago
> that this difference is profound My pet theory is that that the the differences are usually minor. But differentiating between men and women is deeply wired into out brains. Some people are self aware enough to realize that and others like yourself are not.

HN_is_for_gemes 3y ago

It'll be a generation before people can once again admit there is a difference between men and women. If we admit men and women are different its the same a direct attack on much of the LGBT community.

gizmo686 3y ago
The LGBT community is well aware that men and women are different. The existence of trans people is itself strong evidence if this. That is why the trans community is interested in gender affirming care.
throwaway22032 3y ago
No, it is an attack on much of the trans community. "The LGBT community" is in and of itself a part of this weird usage of group terminology to muddy the waters. It's pretty much a political device invented for that purpose - if you don't support all you support none, which is clearly ridiculous. For example, trans women not being permitted to compete in women's sports has exactly zero bearing on the life of gay men, and is actually in the interest of gay women.
- Tagbert 3y ago
  And yet, gay men can be sympathetic to the needs and experiences of trans women. The LGBT community is, in part, built on bonds of similar experiences of ostracism by the larger society.
  - anusuyaceg 3y ago
    Why not add other marginalized group to LGBT if being marginalized is the only criteria?
    - Tagbert 3y ago
      I said part of the reason for association was a shared experience of ostracism. Another is being outside the mainstream in a sexual and gender sense. In recent years, there have been some efforts to tie racial justice into the LGBT identity, but that has been controversial as there is less alignment around issues. Black and brown bands were added to the rainbow flag as part of this, and that was also controversial. The feeling was that that flag was not originally racially focused.
    - nathan_compton 3y ago
      This is what you often see LGBTQ+ (the plus means anyone marginalized). Yes, it typically has to do with gender or sexual differences but that is pretty much marketing. It is easier to organize if you have a relatively clear community.
      - Tagbert 3y ago
        Groups have always had ways to define who was part of the group whether that group was political, religious, or a group of gamers. Calling it "marketing" sounds a little dismissive.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> It’ll be a generation before people can once again admit there is a difference between men and women. If we admit men and women are different its the same a direct attack on much of the LGBT community. As phrased its…not, though. Each of the L, G, B, and T (well, perhaps not the B in all cases) relies pretty centrally on there being a difference between men and women. (Now, if you were to say, “‘men’ and ‘women’ are defined by gender externally ascribed on the basis of (at least notionally) immutable non-identity characteristics”, then that’s a different story, but that’s a lot different than “there are differences between men and women”.)

foxyv 3y ago

It depends on what aspect of men and women you mean. Socialization, biology, endocrinology, reproduction? Saying "Men and women are different" is an easily defendable conclusion. However, the implications that you are making from that regarding anatomy, physiology, and psychology are very hard to prove. There is significant overlap between men and women in each aspect. PS: This type of argument is called a Motte and Bailey. You provide two arguments, one weak and one strong then fall back to the strong argument when challenged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

Gibbon1 3y ago

> that this difference is profound My pet theory is that that the the differences are usually minor. But differentiating between men and women is deeply wired into out brains. Some people are self aware enough to realize that and others like yourself are not.