6 ms·

Unfortunately, India today is not exactly a beacon of righteousness. The current government in India is taking the country on exactly the same path as Pakistan

by windex 3y ago

Unfortunately, India today is not exactly a beacon of righteousness. The current government in India is taking the country on exactly the same path as Pakistan except that India has an oligarchy which is being setup by people in government which would make it more like Russia. I'll give the country 10 years to implode if it doesn't course correct to become more inclusive, social justice oriented, and less violent.

GalenErso 3y ago
> I'll give the country 10 years to implode I'll take predictions that won't happen for 100, Alex.
barry-cotter 3y ago
People have been predicting Pakistan will collapse since 1947. It can’t be as fragile as it looks or it’d be gone already. Regarding India, hoping people who have different values to you suffer isn’t a prediction .
- kumarvvr 3y ago
  > People have been predicting Pakistan will collapse since 1947 It would have. But decades of war in Afghanistan and the pouring of USD by America, disregarding the very fact that they are funding a well known and open military dictatorship, has kept the country floating. It is in a deep cycle of debt and has no meaningful economy to speak of.
xNeil 3y ago
10 years to implode on what basis? That there's an oligarchy of sorts? What an absurd statement.
screye 3y ago
I'll give the country 10 years to implode I am willing to take a bet for any $$ value with 10x odds in your favor to contest that claim. more inclusive, social justice oriented, and less violent Hot take. If you genuinely cared about these things, you'd end up a supporter of the Modi Govt. I do not mind views that are diametrically opposite to me. But, every article in western media seems to be written by someone who is 1 degree of separation from the Indian opposition. The claims are never backed by statistics, and the infographics are often so absurd that I have to wonder if I live in an upside-down world. Apparently, India has the 150th [1] least free press in the world and India has been a country with on average 2nd highest chance of genocide [2] for the entire last decade. Dig into their data a little bit, and you realize that they either only interviewed opponents of the current govt. or used zero data what-so-ever. Note: Modi is the world's most popular leader[3]. About 20% of Muslims and 30% of Christians voted for his 2nd term[4]. For reference, Republicans have never been able to come anywhere close to 20% of the black vote-share, and no is claiming that America will collapse when a Republican wins every alternate election. The opinion of the average HNer on India, is as bad as a Q-anon supporter on American issues. I apologize for the somewhat angry tone I take on these threads. I do not intend to start a culture war. But when ignorance and arrogance are paired this frivolously, I can't help but respond in kind. [1] https://rsf.org/en/index https://rsf.org/en/index [2] https://earlywarningproject.ushmm.org/countries/india https://earlywarningproject.ushmm.org/countries/india [3] https://morningconsult.com/global-leader-approval/ https://morningconsult.com/global-leader-approval/ [4] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/nationalism-and-politics/pf_06-29-21_india-06-4/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/nationalism-... [5] my previous rants on the matter - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=author%3Ascreye%20modi&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- int_19h 3y ago
  Are you claiming that BJP under Modi isn't pushing for "Hindutva", or that the latter is somehow "more inclusive" than the policies that preceded it?
  - screye 3y ago
    Yes. But not the way you might think. Let me be clear. I am not a Bhakt, don't particularly love Modi and have complained quite often about bad policies during his regime. My goal is to help people build a representative view of India, not one that fawns over Modi. The BJP absolutely pushes for Hindutva, but 'Hindutva' is an umbrella term that can mean anything from 'places greater importance on cultural traditions that have been in the subcontinent longer' to 'murderous nazis' depending on who you ask. Since you asked the question, it would help if you specify what you mean by hindutva. to your question--> what does 'inclusivity' look like? If inclusivity is complete blindness towards religion in front of the law, then you get France style secularism which BJP pushes. On the other hand, you have the Congress's secularism that is in complete contrast to those values. In that sense, both the BJP and the Congress are secular parties, without agreement on wat that term means. 85%+ of Indian muslims are pasmanda low-caste muslims. The previous govt. (congress) did not have a single pasmanda muslim represented in their govt. The BJP is now reaching out to them directly. India never had tribal representation at the national stage, and the BJP elected a tribal woman to the presidency. The BJP has time and again, promoted meritocratic candidates over nepo-babies, making the electoral system more inclusive. India is a not a nation divided on religion alone. It is mostly divided on economics. By focusing in more effective governance and distribution of social welfare, BJP's govt. has disproportionately benefited the poorer population of India. These policies do not discriminate by religion or any other identity. Western style views of inclusivity do not translate well to other nations. As for the bills like CAA, removal of 370 and the like. The Congress's own policies show that these had bipartisan support up until the BJP brought it up. I don't blame them, politics is politics. But, in isolation, both parties acknowledge that these were necessary changes for national security. The CAA was initially instituted by the Congress itself and the sorry state of section 370 at removal was also a result of bipartisan erosion of that bill over time. (it was meant to be a temporary provision anyway. But I won't get into that right now). Discussions around vague words like Hindutva and inclusivity are never productive. It would be more helpful to define what we mean by these terms. Create a list of policies implemented by the Modi govt. over the last 8 years and compare those against the govt. that came before. If there is a clear trend that emerges, then we can play ball. Or else, it is all smoke-and-mirrors. somehow "more inclusive" than the policies that preceded it? That one I can say with confidence. The congress has been a party of nepotism for so long, that Modi did not have to do too much to appear more inclusive than them. Modi's biggest strength right now, is the sheer incompetence of his opposition. They continuously pushed away their very best to the point of humiliation.
Dopameaner 3y ago
Thank god you havent been following the shootings of the US. Or else, the 10 year future prediction would be for the US as well? Doing arm chair analysis on macro economics is quite hilariously ignorant. If you're so sure, why dont you short the indian markets with your life savings.

by windex 3y ago

GalenErso 3y ago

> I'll give the country 10 years to implode I'll take predictions that won't happen for 100, Alex.

barry-cotter 3y ago

People have been predicting Pakistan will collapse since 1947. It can’t be as fragile as it looks or it’d be gone already. Regarding India, hoping people who have different values to you suffer isn’t a prediction .

kumarvvr 3y ago
> People have been predicting Pakistan will collapse since 1947 It would have. But decades of war in Afghanistan and the pouring of USD by America, disregarding the very fact that they are funding a well known and open military dictatorship, has kept the country floating. It is in a deep cycle of debt and has no meaningful economy to speak of.

xNeil 3y ago

10 years to implode on what basis? That there's an oligarchy of sorts? What an absurd statement.

screye 3y ago

I'll give the country 10 years to implode I am willing to take a bet for any $$ value with 10x odds in your favor to contest that claim. more inclusive, social justice oriented, and less violent Hot take. If you genuinely cared about these things, you'd end up a supporter of the Modi Govt. I do not mind views that are diametrically opposite to me. But, every article in western media seems to be written by someone who is 1 degree of separation from the Indian opposition. The claims are never backed by statistics, and the infographics are often so absurd that I have to wonder if I live in an upside-down world. Apparently, India has the 150th [1] least free press in the world and India has been a country with on average 2nd highest chance of genocide [2] for the entire last decade. Dig into their data a little bit, and you realize that they either only interviewed opponents of the current govt. or used zero data what-so-ever. Note: Modi is the world's most popular leader[3]. About 20% of Muslims and 30% of Christians voted for his 2nd term[4]. For reference, Republicans have never been able to come anywhere close to 20% of the black vote-share, and no is claiming that America will collapse when a Republican wins every alternate election. The opinion of the average HNer on India, is as bad as a Q-anon supporter on American issues. I apologize for the somewhat angry tone I take on these threads. I do not intend to start a culture war. But when ignorance and arrogance are paired this frivolously, I can't help but respond in kind. [1] https://rsf.org/en/index https://rsf.org/en/index [2] https://earlywarningproject.ushmm.org/countries/india https://earlywarningproject.ushmm.org/countries/india [3] https://morningconsult.com/global-leader-approval/ https://morningconsult.com/global-leader-approval/ [4] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/nationalism-and-politics/pf_06-29-21_india-06-4/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/nationalism-... [5] my previous rants on the matter - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=author%3Ascreye%20modi&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

int_19h 3y ago
Are you claiming that BJP under Modi isn't pushing for "Hindutva", or that the latter is somehow "more inclusive" than the policies that preceded it?
- screye 3y ago
  Yes. But not the way you might think. Let me be clear. I am not a Bhakt, don't particularly love Modi and have complained quite often about bad policies during his regime. My goal is to help people build a representative view of India, not one that fawns over Modi. The BJP absolutely pushes for Hindutva, but 'Hindutva' is an umbrella term that can mean anything from 'places greater importance on cultural traditions that have been in the subcontinent longer' to 'murderous nazis' depending on who you ask. Since you asked the question, it would help if you specify what you mean by hindutva. to your question--> what does 'inclusivity' look like? If inclusivity is complete blindness towards religion in front of the law, then you get France style secularism which BJP pushes. On the other hand, you have the Congress's secularism that is in complete contrast to those values. In that sense, both the BJP and the Congress are secular parties, without agreement on wat that term means. 85%+ of Indian muslims are pasmanda low-caste muslims. The previous govt. (congress) did not have a single pasmanda muslim represented in their govt. The BJP is now reaching out to them directly. India never had tribal representation at the national stage, and the BJP elected a tribal woman to the presidency. The BJP has time and again, promoted meritocratic candidates over nepo-babies, making the electoral system more inclusive. India is a not a nation divided on religion alone. It is mostly divided on economics. By focusing in more effective governance and distribution of social welfare, BJP's govt. has disproportionately benefited the poorer population of India. These policies do not discriminate by religion or any other identity. Western style views of inclusivity do not translate well to other nations. As for the bills like CAA, removal of 370 and the like. The Congress's own policies show that these had bipartisan support up until the BJP brought it up. I don't blame them, politics is politics. But, in isolation, both parties acknowledge that these were necessary changes for national security. The CAA was initially instituted by the Congress itself and the sorry state of section 370 at removal was also a result of bipartisan erosion of that bill over time. (it was meant to be a temporary provision anyway. But I won't get into that right now). Discussions around vague words like Hindutva and inclusivity are never productive. It would be more helpful to define what we mean by these terms. Create a list of policies implemented by the Modi govt. over the last 8 years and compare those against the govt. that came before. If there is a clear trend that emerges, then we can play ball. Or else, it is all smoke-and-mirrors. somehow "more inclusive" than the policies that preceded it? That one I can say with confidence. The congress has been a party of nepotism for so long, that Modi did not have to do too much to appear more inclusive than them. Modi's biggest strength right now, is the sheer incompetence of his opposition. They continuously pushed away their very best to the point of humiliation.

Dopameaner 3y ago

Thank god you havent been following the shootings of the US. Or else, the 10 year future prediction would be for the US as well? Doing arm chair analysis on macro economics is quite hilariously ignorant. If you're so sure, why dont you short the indian markets with your life savings.