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This 17-acre farm was enough to keep about eight humans alive if it had been the sole source of agricultural production to feed them. That's the fundamental eq

This 17-acre farm was enough to keep about eight humans alive if it had been the sole source of agricultural production to feed them. That's the fundamental equation, and it generally assumes a vegan diet as well. Nobody has ever been able to reduce this value, it's related to the solar input and the ability of plants to capture carbon into a human-digestible energy source. It'll be worse on Mars, of course, due to the reduced intensity of sunlight.

gknapp 3y ago
I'm not quite sure where you got that figure from, but some quick research cites numbers vary between 0.1 and 1.2 acres per person. In any event, 17 acres could theoretically supply food for an enormous range from 15 to 170 people, depending on how intensively it's farmed. [1] 4000 sq ft bio-intensive farming (http://www.growbiointensive.org/ http://www.growbiointensive.org/) [2] 0.44 acres permaculturism (https://permaculturism.com/how-much-land-does-it-take-to-feed-one-person https://permaculturism.com/how-much-land-does-it-take-to-fee...) [3] 1.2 from a 1994 study (and further discussion in this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1aozn1/how_much_land_does_it_take_to_support_one_human/ https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1aozn1/how_much...)
somenameforme 3y ago
China has around 330 million acres of farmland and, until relatively recently, they were a net food exporter with a population of 1.4 billion. That's around 4 people fed per acre, and that's not especially remarkable. Even urban homesteads are also able to match this. Here's [1] a heavily commercialized one that is/was operating on a fifth of an acre for a family of four. And meat also provides an excellent nutrient:calorie ratio with extremely low upkeep. You can sustain around 50 free range chickens per acre, and they're ready for harvest in 6 weeks. That's more than a whole chicken per day, on a single acre. If you want to get real crazy you can also get into things like vertical farming/aquaponics [2] and more, where the densities are limited really only by cost. Though on the still very reasonable end, you can do things like potato boxes where you can get hundreds of pounds of potatoes in tens of square feet. [1] - https://www.urbanhomestead.org/ https://www.urbanhomestead.org/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming
- nly 3y ago
  Rice is a rich source of carbs and isn't grown on what westerners would consider farmland
  - defrost 3y ago
    Australia is a Western country and farms rice on farmland. https://www.rga.org.au/Public/Public/Content/The_Rice_Industry/The_Rice_Regions.aspx https://www.rga.org.au/Public/Public/Content/The_Rice_Indust... I'm not sure where you get your odd notions from.
    - SgtBastard 3y ago
      Not the person you’re replying to, but China over literally Millenia have effectively terraformed mountains into channels and channels of rice paddies for the cultivation of rice - areas that westerners would not typically consider farmland. Of course you can also plant rice on flat fields (and China does as well), but this does skew the comparative ratios of acres of land use : people fed.
      - defrost 3y ago
        I'm a westerner in agriculture (Australian, northern territory cattle stations -> mining - Geophysics -> large acre grains) and I consider that to be farmland. Maybe you're thinking of some specific subset of urban western non agricultural people. Of course in western culture the "typical" westerner lives in an urban environment so perhaps that explains the disconnect.
        somenameforme 3y ago
        I expect people think I'm somehow 'tricking' them with terminology with China's farmland figures. Many seem to think that you need multiple acres per person for basic sustainability, so there must be some catch. Nope, farmland is just any land where farming (or ranching) is happening. It's not fixed, nor does it exclude certain types of farm/ranchland.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pcrh 3y ago
To add to others' comments, having animals increases a farm's productivity, since a lot of plant material is indigestible for humans. So they wouldn't have been vegan. Chickens and pigs are omnivourous and will eat all sorts. Ruminants such as cows or goats can convert inedible grass and other cellulose-rich material into milk and meat.

gknapp 3y ago

I'm not quite sure where you got that figure from, but some quick research cites numbers vary between 0.1 and 1.2 acres per person. In any event, 17 acres could theoretically supply food for an enormous range from 15 to 170 people, depending on how intensively it's farmed. [1] 4000 sq ft bio-intensive farming (http://www.growbiointensive.org/ http://www.growbiointensive.org/) [2] 0.44 acres permaculturism (https://permaculturism.com/how-much-land-does-it-take-to-feed-one-person https://permaculturism.com/how-much-land-does-it-take-to-fee...) [3] 1.2 from a 1994 study (and further discussion in this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1aozn1/how_much_land_does_it_take_to_support_one_human/ https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1aozn1/how_much...)

somenameforme 3y ago

China has around 330 million acres of farmland and, until relatively recently, they were a net food exporter with a population of 1.4 billion. That's around 4 people fed per acre, and that's not especially remarkable. Even urban homesteads are also able to match this. Here's [1] a heavily commercialized one that is/was operating on a fifth of an acre for a family of four. And meat also provides an excellent nutrient:calorie ratio with extremely low upkeep. You can sustain around 50 free range chickens per acre, and they're ready for harvest in 6 weeks. That's more than a whole chicken per day, on a single acre. If you want to get real crazy you can also get into things like vertical farming/aquaponics [2] and more, where the densities are limited really only by cost. Though on the still very reasonable end, you can do things like potato boxes where you can get hundreds of pounds of potatoes in tens of square feet. [1] - https://www.urbanhomestead.org/ https://www.urbanhomestead.org/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming

nly 3y ago
Rice is a rich source of carbs and isn't grown on what westerners would consider farmland
- defrost 3y ago
  Australia is a Western country and farms rice on farmland. https://www.rga.org.au/Public/Public/Content/The_Rice_Industry/The_Rice_Regions.aspx https://www.rga.org.au/Public/Public/Content/The_Rice_Indust... I'm not sure where you get your odd notions from.
  - SgtBastard 3y ago
    Not the person you’re replying to, but China over literally Millenia have effectively terraformed mountains into channels and channels of rice paddies for the cultivation of rice - areas that westerners would not typically consider farmland. Of course you can also plant rice on flat fields (and China does as well), but this does skew the comparative ratios of acres of land use : people fed.
    - defrost 3y ago
      I'm a westerner in agriculture (Australian, northern territory cattle stations -> mining - Geophysics -> large acre grains) and I consider that to be farmland. Maybe you're thinking of some specific subset of urban western non agricultural people. Of course in western culture the "typical" westerner lives in an urban environment so perhaps that explains the disconnect.
      - somenameforme 3y ago
        I expect people think I'm somehow 'tricking' them with terminology with China's farmland figures. Many seem to think that you need multiple acres per person for basic sustainability, so there must be some catch. Nope, farmland is just any land where farming (or ranching) is happening. It's not fixed, nor does it exclude certain types of farm/ranchland.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

pcrh 3y ago

To add to others' comments, having animals increases a farm's productivity, since a lot of plant material is indigestible for humans. So they wouldn't have been vegan. Chickens and pigs are omnivourous and will eat all sorts. Ruminants such as cows or goats can convert inedible grass and other cellulose-rich material into milk and meat.