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So don't tolerate intolerance. It's an easy solution, I have no idea why there is a paradox about it. If you allow shitty behavior to persist it will. If you do

So don't tolerate intolerance. It's an easy solution, I have no idea why there is a paradox about it. If you allow shitty behavior to persist it will. If you don't tolerate shitty behavior in people it tends to diminish. You'll never get rid of all of it but you have to correct toxic mentalities and behaviors.

theturtletalks 3y ago
The nuance of what is “intolerance” is very subjective. The prime example is Germany that forbids any mention of Nazism. There are some that say removing all mentions of Nazism will doom us to replay a similar tragedy. Others say that mentioning it will draw followers. It’s not only important to draw the line, but to know who’s drawing that line. And are they drawing that line now, to further discriminate against views that don’t support theirs in the future.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > The prime example is Germany that forbids any mention of Nazism. AFAIK, German law does not forbid “any mention of Nazism”, it forbids “Dissemination of propaganda material of unconstitutional and terrorist organisations” and “Use of symbols of unconstitutional and terrorist organisations” including, but very much not limited to, the propaganda and symbols of the Nazi Party. But this does not – for instance, as controversies in 00s established, prohibit incorporation of Nazi symbols in contexts that, taken as a whole, are directed against them. The issue isn’t mention but promotion of Nazism, etc.
  - theturtletalks 3y ago
    Has the line between mention and promotion been tested? I remember hearing about some cases where the former seemed likely, but the latter was argued. I could be mistaken though.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > Has the line between mention and promotion been tested? Wikipedia lists some specific cases with regard to symbols where it has, but more generally its pretty clear that Germany has not made any effort to prohibit mention of Nazis [0], even while they prohibit Nazi (and other “unconstitutional and terrorist group”) propaganda. [0] e.g., https://bergen-belsen.stiftung-ng.de/en/history/ https://bergen-belsen.stiftung-ng.de/en/history/
      - theturtletalks 3y ago
        In this case, Germany is given the benefit of the doubt. In general, do you think tolerating intolerance is right? Another example would be movie studios removing the twin towers from movies and shows just so the "terrorist don't win"? Is that right?
- _19qg 3y ago
  > he prime example is Germany that forbids any mention of Nazism False. Not "any" use is forbidden. Forbidden is for example the use and display of symbols of certain organisations. The exceptions are then when these symbols are for example used in context like art, science or to explain historic contexts. "Das Zeigen von "Kennzeichen verfassungswidriger und terroristischer Organisationen" ist in Deutschland verboten. Das regelt §86a des Strafgesetzbuches. Die Verbote gelten allerdings nicht, wenn die Verwendung der Kennzeichen "der staatsbürgerlichen Aufklärung, der Abwehr verfassungswidriger Bestrebungen, der Kunst oder der Wissenschaft, der Forschung oder der Lehre, der Berichterstattung über Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der Geschichte oder ähnlichen Zwecken dient", zum Beispiel dieser Text." A memorial site of a Nazi concentration camp, like the one which is just 10km away from my home, for example can show Nazi symbols. The context there is the former concentration camp, where of the ca. 100000 prisoners around 50000 died. It's quite important to know about theses crimes, so the memorial site can and does display Nazi symbols.

theturtletalks 3y ago

The nuance of what is “intolerance” is very subjective. The prime example is Germany that forbids any mention of Nazism. There are some that say removing all mentions of Nazism will doom us to replay a similar tragedy. Others say that mentioning it will draw followers. It’s not only important to draw the line, but to know who’s drawing that line. And are they drawing that line now, to further discriminate against views that don’t support theirs in the future.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> The prime example is Germany that forbids any mention of Nazism. AFAIK, German law does not forbid “any mention of Nazism”, it forbids “Dissemination of propaganda material of unconstitutional and terrorist organisations” and “Use of symbols of unconstitutional and terrorist organisations” including, but very much not limited to, the propaganda and symbols of the Nazi Party. But this does not – for instance, as controversies in 00s established, prohibit incorporation of Nazi symbols in contexts that, taken as a whole, are directed against them. The issue isn’t mention but promotion of Nazism, etc.
- theturtletalks 3y ago
  Has the line between mention and promotion been tested? I remember hearing about some cases where the former seemed likely, but the latter was argued. I could be mistaken though.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Has the line between mention and promotion been tested? Wikipedia lists some specific cases with regard to symbols where it has, but more generally its pretty clear that Germany has not made any effort to prohibit mention of Nazis [0], even while they prohibit Nazi (and other “unconstitutional and terrorist group”) propaganda. [0] e.g., https://bergen-belsen.stiftung-ng.de/en/history/ https://bergen-belsen.stiftung-ng.de/en/history/
    - theturtletalks 3y ago
      In this case, Germany is given the benefit of the doubt. In general, do you think tolerating intolerance is right? Another example would be movie studios removing the twin towers from movies and shows just so the "terrorist don't win"? Is that right?
_19qg 3y ago
> he prime example is Germany that forbids any mention of Nazism False. Not "any" use is forbidden. Forbidden is for example the use and display of symbols of certain organisations. The exceptions are then when these symbols are for example used in context like art, science or to explain historic contexts. "Das Zeigen von "Kennzeichen verfassungswidriger und terroristischer Organisationen" ist in Deutschland verboten. Das regelt §86a des Strafgesetzbuches. Die Verbote gelten allerdings nicht, wenn die Verwendung der Kennzeichen "der staatsbürgerlichen Aufklärung, der Abwehr verfassungswidriger Bestrebungen, der Kunst oder der Wissenschaft, der Forschung oder der Lehre, der Berichterstattung über Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der Geschichte oder ähnlichen Zwecken dient", zum Beispiel dieser Text." A memorial site of a Nazi concentration camp, like the one which is just 10km away from my home, for example can show Nazi symbols. The context there is the former concentration camp, where of the ca. 100000 prisoners around 50000 died. It's quite important to know about theses crimes, so the memorial site can and does display Nazi symbols.