15 ms·

It has felt this way to me for years now, really. Somewhere in the last decade or so the top X of almost any genre I enjoy (which spans a large range of fiction

It has felt this way to me for years now, really. Somewhere in the last decade or so the top X of almost any genre I enjoy (which spans a large range of fiction) has been... lackluster. Not just in the hipster contrarian sense of "popular therefore bad" but also the lists of books touted as "critics adore this obscure gem" and crowd-sourced "most read/reviewed" and all in between. Certainly a few standouts here and there. For me the primary issue has been the words, the lexicon, the cadence; it's flat. Seems like writers have learned to write and learned what's right, they've been writing and not reading. There's not much exploration of the form, it's all so grammatically correct. Maybe it's the fault of the editors or typesetters, if those still exist. It's boring, either way. Secondly it's the themes. Struggle and oppression have always been plot drivers, but it seems like a vast majority of works published in the last decade are just slight variations on "oppressed person struggles to exist within the System, then finds a way to overcome; The End." The Hero's Journey highly compressed, lossily. Luckily there are hundreds of years and countless intriguing novels written before all this, more than I could ever hope to read in my lifetime. Maybe this is what it is like to age: to recognize truly that nothing is new under the sun; so, go forth by going back, seek that which was once new in its time.

progend 3y ago
There seems to be a singular style that most modern authors use. It’s probably to gain maximum readership. Also I wonder how often top selling authors use a ghost writer.
wrp 3y ago
> ...the top X of almost any genre I enjoy (which spans a large range of fiction) has been... lackluster. I read an article a few years ago from a literary editor complaining how MFA programs had made his job harder. He said his job used to be sorting a few gems out of a mountain of rubbish, but now he has the more time consuming task of sorting through a mountain of mediocre work. His point was that MFA programs can teach you how to not be awful, but not make you great.
treeman79 3y ago
LitRPG category suffers a lot from this. A number of good series. Then tons of ones that are basically. I wake up in a new world. I punched a rabbit. I gained a level. I walk 10 feet. Walking got a skill level. Oh good I got that walking level just in time to not die to a snake. I gain a level in poison resist. … I punched a a dragon and gained a level. Oh crap, umm a plot. Yeah. Let’s add one in last chapter so there is some reason to have a sequel. That’ll be 15 dollars for Audible download.
- jimmygrapes 3y ago
  "Book One of the Neverlander Dimitrium War Quintology"
- strix_varius 3y ago
  Which do you consider to be among the good series? (I have read and enjoyed a couple of LitRPGs)
  - chucky_z 3y ago
    There’s a clear best series (if you can handle the off color comedy) — Dungeon Crawler Carl
  - MrLeap 3y ago
    Not OP but I've really enjoyed the He Who Fights Monsters series by Shirtaloon and Orconomics: A Satire by J. Zachary Pike. First hour or so of HWFM was a little rough, but then it hit its stride and here I am 9 audible credits later, ready for the 10th to be out. Was entertained the whole way through. IMO J. Zachary Pike has better writing technique, but hasn't released as much. I'm presuming the extra polish costs more time to author.
  - treeman79 3y ago
    As others have mentioned, he who fights monsters and dungeon crawler are your top tier series.
two_in_one 3y ago
I'm watching old movies for the same reason. With the latest flood of look alikes I think we can save our time by just using AI to summarize.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Same, I find myself defaulting to older movies and content a lot more. Seems like there was a golden age and relatability to movies that was lost at some stage. Same for music, there is technically good music happening. But I find the reliability and warmth harder to come by. My room mates were watching these insanely CGI heavy action films about 5-10 years back and cheering. I could never get it .
  - two_in_one 3y ago
    Avatar was cool. Heavy CGI looked fantastic at first. But then it became an often overused commodity. Still there are movies I like. Mostly well made sci-fi for kids. Avatar2 is not in the list.
jacksonkmarley 3y ago
I would also add that even the odd writer with a great early book or books commonly slumps down to meh and then churns it out from there on, which is sad. It's like the fiction publishing industry had this technology for 10-20 years already.
quantified 3y ago
What style request does it take for ChatGPT to produce this take?
mystertea 3y ago
I am relatively young (32) and I feel the same way, as an avid fiction reader, and consumer of movies/tv; I don't think this observation is merely a symptom of getting old. I suspect it has something to do with a few factors (just speculation): 1. Publishers / writers taking the safe route to content creation: using formulaic storytelling to generate "likely" successes (the pop music effect). They're treating writing more as a product than art. 2. Creative writing as a medium no longer attracts the best and brightest, who instead go into other expressive forms that are more on trend / current (movies, tv, video games, digital art, music, programming, etc). 3. People's attention spans are shorter, and novelty is not perceived as being rewarded (this is related to the first point) 4. A culture that is increasingly trending toward narcissism due to the effects of social media, pop culture, and more broken homes. People aren't writing for the sake of expression or art so much as to get attention and win prizes. 5. (Ties in with 1 and 3) An increasingly garbage information landscape full of click-bait and vapid content optimized for algorithms and views. This information landscape creeps into the culture at every level, I believe (to varying degrees) It is ironic, and a poignant observation, that AI writing is nearly indistinguishable from much of the existing user-written content. I tend to agree, and blame that on the fact that in the past ten years, people have become intellectually lazy (perhaps for the above reasons?) and are really just parrots and synthesizers themselves.

progend 3y ago

There seems to be a singular style that most modern authors use. It’s probably to gain maximum readership. Also I wonder how often top selling authors use a ghost writer.

wrp 3y ago

> ...the top X of almost any genre I enjoy (which spans a large range of fiction) has been... lackluster. I read an article a few years ago from a literary editor complaining how MFA programs had made his job harder. He said his job used to be sorting a few gems out of a mountain of rubbish, but now he has the more time consuming task of sorting through a mountain of mediocre work. His point was that MFA programs can teach you how to not be awful, but not make you great.

treeman79 3y ago

LitRPG category suffers a lot from this. A number of good series. Then tons of ones that are basically. I wake up in a new world. I punched a rabbit. I gained a level. I walk 10 feet. Walking got a skill level. Oh good I got that walking level just in time to not die to a snake. I gain a level in poison resist. … I punched a a dragon and gained a level. Oh crap, umm a plot. Yeah. Let’s add one in last chapter so there is some reason to have a sequel. That’ll be 15 dollars for Audible download.

jimmygrapes 3y ago
"Book One of the Neverlander Dimitrium War Quintology"
strix_varius 3y ago
Which do you consider to be among the good series? (I have read and enjoyed a couple of LitRPGs)
- chucky_z 3y ago
  There’s a clear best series (if you can handle the off color comedy) — Dungeon Crawler Carl
- MrLeap 3y ago
  Not OP but I've really enjoyed the He Who Fights Monsters series by Shirtaloon and Orconomics: A Satire by J. Zachary Pike. First hour or so of HWFM was a little rough, but then it hit its stride and here I am 9 audible credits later, ready for the 10th to be out. Was entertained the whole way through. IMO J. Zachary Pike has better writing technique, but hasn't released as much. I'm presuming the extra polish costs more time to author.
- treeman79 3y ago
  As others have mentioned, he who fights monsters and dungeon crawler are your top tier series.

two_in_one 3y ago

I'm watching old movies for the same reason. With the latest flood of look alikes I think we can save our time by just using AI to summarize.

ChatGTP 3y ago
Same, I find myself defaulting to older movies and content a lot more. Seems like there was a golden age and relatability to movies that was lost at some stage. Same for music, there is technically good music happening. But I find the reliability and warmth harder to come by. My room mates were watching these insanely CGI heavy action films about 5-10 years back and cheering. I could never get it .
- two_in_one 3y ago
  Avatar was cool. Heavy CGI looked fantastic at first. But then it became an often overused commodity. Still there are movies I like. Mostly well made sci-fi for kids. Avatar2 is not in the list.

jacksonkmarley 3y ago

I would also add that even the odd writer with a great early book or books commonly slumps down to meh and then churns it out from there on, which is sad. It's like the fiction publishing industry had this technology for 10-20 years already.

quantified 3y ago

What style request does it take for ChatGPT to produce this take?

mystertea 3y ago

I am relatively young (32) and I feel the same way, as an avid fiction reader, and consumer of movies/tv; I don't think this observation is merely a symptom of getting old. I suspect it has something to do with a few factors (just speculation): 1. Publishers / writers taking the safe route to content creation: using formulaic storytelling to generate "likely" successes (the pop music effect). They're treating writing more as a product than art. 2. Creative writing as a medium no longer attracts the best and brightest, who instead go into other expressive forms that are more on trend / current (movies, tv, video games, digital art, music, programming, etc). 3. People's attention spans are shorter, and novelty is not perceived as being rewarded (this is related to the first point) 4. A culture that is increasingly trending toward narcissism due to the effects of social media, pop culture, and more broken homes. People aren't writing for the sake of expression or art so much as to get attention and win prizes. 5. (Ties in with 1 and 3) An increasingly garbage information landscape full of click-bait and vapid content optimized for algorithms and views. This information landscape creeps into the culture at every level, I believe (to varying degrees) It is ironic, and a poignant observation, that AI writing is nearly indistinguishable from much of the existing user-written content. I tend to agree, and blame that on the fact that in the past ten years, people have become intellectually lazy (perhaps for the above reasons?) and are really just parrots and synthesizers themselves.