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> From an economic standpoint, there is no sense in small scale farming. So long as there is residual value in the "hand-me-down" equipment, there will be econ

> From an economic standpoint, there is no sense in small scale farming. So long as there is residual value in the "hand-me-down" equipment, there will be economic value in operating it. At the same time it is not economically sensible for large scale farming to continue to operate old and outdated equipment, so the smaller scale farm actually fills a useful role in the economy.

flangola7 3y ago
Are there really that many innovations in how to harvest a wheat field?
- btilly 3y ago
  Yes. https://www.geoforce.com/how-can-gps-be-used-in-precision-farming/ https://www.geoforce.com/how-can-gps-be-used-in-precision-fa... https://wheatfoundation.org/innovation-to-feed-the-future-a-case-for-biotech-use-in-wheat/ https://wheatfoundation.org/innovation-to-feed-the-future-a-... https://www.corteva.us/Resources/graininnovations/grain-innovations-library.html https://www.corteva.us/Resources/graininnovations/grain-inno... And a whole lot more.
- ROTMetro 3y ago
  Didn't they just recently start desiccating with Glyphosate at the end of the growing cycle to speed their harvest up by two weeks and putting glyphosate into food a few days harvesting it (causing a higher concentration in food than previously)?
  - randomdata 3y ago
    Recently like in the past 30 years or so? It has certainly been common practice for at least that long. I have vague recollections of our farm still pulling whites in the early-to-mid 80s, so perhaps not that far back. But that may have simply been a product of our farm being hesitant to try new things, which wouldn't be out of the ordinary. Unfortunately, I was a bit too young at that time to understand the motivation.
    - saalweachter 3y ago
      My understanding is it's mostly a thing in the northern latitudes -- England and Canada, and some northern US states, especially North Dakota. In eg Indiana and Iowa the growing season is long enough there's no need to desiccate -- the weather isn't going to turn before the crop has a chance to dry.
      - randomdata 3y ago
        Desiccation may also be used to deal with uneven ripening. Edible beans in particular are notorious for that problem. Harvest is generally in late summer, so weather isn't typically a problem, but by the time the late bloom is ready to harvest the early bloom may have already spoiled.
  - biorach 3y ago
    Yep. For decades. Plus frequently _before_ planting, Glyphosate is used to clear weeds and volunteer cereals from the fields. Then, e.g. during the cereal growing phase there are regular applications of fungicide, insecticide, growth regulators and so on. Bottom líne, if you are not buying 100% organic this is the reality of your food chain. (Full disclosure: I do not buy organic)
btilly 3y ago
The economic value from operating it will generally not match the opportunity cost of not doing other things. And those operating it will learn the cost of this the hard way when they fail to have access to the niceties of modern society that require exchanging what you've produced for something produced by others. Like, say, the computing device that you used to post your opinion.
- bendbro 3y ago
  There could come a point where modern society is so degrading that sacrificing complex niceties becomes worth it to live off the grid.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y ago
    Many are already there.
- randomdata 3y ago
  > The economic value from operating it will generally not match the opportunity cost of not doing other things. Trouble is finding a better opportunity. From personal experience, my small acreage and old equipment, on average, nets me half of my developer income for just a couple of weeks per year of work. That's really hard to compete with. What else are you going to do instead? It doesn't scale in the sense that if I put in more time I won't make more money, but the nice thing about small farms is that time commitment is also small. Fantastic income relative to the time commitment, and still leaves you the ability to do other things the rest of the year.
  - theonething 3y ago
    > half of my developer income for just a couple of weeks per year of work That is a very high hourly wage. Wow.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      Calling it an hourly wage is misleading. It’s akin to having a rental property that you fix up and lease out for a year with a single payment.

flangola7 3y ago

Are there really that many innovations in how to harvest a wheat field?

btilly 3y ago
Yes. https://www.geoforce.com/how-can-gps-be-used-in-precision-farming/ https://www.geoforce.com/how-can-gps-be-used-in-precision-fa... https://wheatfoundation.org/innovation-to-feed-the-future-a-case-for-biotech-use-in-wheat/ https://wheatfoundation.org/innovation-to-feed-the-future-a-... https://www.corteva.us/Resources/graininnovations/grain-innovations-library.html https://www.corteva.us/Resources/graininnovations/grain-inno... And a whole lot more.
ROTMetro 3y ago
Didn't they just recently start desiccating with Glyphosate at the end of the growing cycle to speed their harvest up by two weeks and putting glyphosate into food a few days harvesting it (causing a higher concentration in food than previously)?
- randomdata 3y ago
  Recently like in the past 30 years or so? It has certainly been common practice for at least that long. I have vague recollections of our farm still pulling whites in the early-to-mid 80s, so perhaps not that far back. But that may have simply been a product of our farm being hesitant to try new things, which wouldn't be out of the ordinary. Unfortunately, I was a bit too young at that time to understand the motivation.
  - saalweachter 3y ago
    My understanding is it's mostly a thing in the northern latitudes -- England and Canada, and some northern US states, especially North Dakota. In eg Indiana and Iowa the growing season is long enough there's no need to desiccate -- the weather isn't going to turn before the crop has a chance to dry.
    - randomdata 3y ago
      Desiccation may also be used to deal with uneven ripening. Edible beans in particular are notorious for that problem. Harvest is generally in late summer, so weather isn't typically a problem, but by the time the late bloom is ready to harvest the early bloom may have already spoiled.
- biorach 3y ago
  Yep. For decades. Plus frequently _before_ planting, Glyphosate is used to clear weeds and volunteer cereals from the fields. Then, e.g. during the cereal growing phase there are regular applications of fungicide, insecticide, growth regulators and so on. Bottom líne, if you are not buying 100% organic this is the reality of your food chain. (Full disclosure: I do not buy organic)

btilly 3y ago

The economic value from operating it will generally not match the opportunity cost of not doing other things. And those operating it will learn the cost of this the hard way when they fail to have access to the niceties of modern society that require exchanging what you've produced for something produced by others. Like, say, the computing device that you used to post your opinion.

bendbro 3y ago
There could come a point where modern society is so degrading that sacrificing complex niceties becomes worth it to live off the grid.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y ago
  Many are already there.
randomdata 3y ago
> The economic value from operating it will generally not match the opportunity cost of not doing other things. Trouble is finding a better opportunity. From personal experience, my small acreage and old equipment, on average, nets me half of my developer income for just a couple of weeks per year of work. That's really hard to compete with. What else are you going to do instead? It doesn't scale in the sense that if I put in more time I won't make more money, but the nice thing about small farms is that time commitment is also small. Fantastic income relative to the time commitment, and still leaves you the ability to do other things the rest of the year.
- theonething 3y ago
  > half of my developer income for just a couple of weeks per year of work That is a very high hourly wage. Wow.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    Calling it an hourly wage is misleading. It’s akin to having a rental property that you fix up and lease out for a year with a single payment.