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Land usage isn't a good metric, especially because land in the countryside is plentiful. This is another thing that pisses me off about permaculture people, the

Land usage isn't a good metric, especially because land in the countryside is plentiful. This is another thing that pisses me off about permaculture people, they encourage inefficient use of land in urban environments, leading to a whole bunch of other problems, including higher land value, more need for cars, and MORE environmentally and economically draining suburbs. I don't want a community garden in my most important economic areas, I want housing and workplaces.

KaiserPro 3y ago
> they encourage inefficient use of land in urban environments I think that depends on which country/state you are in. In the UK, I'm sure there are people who want to turn everywhere into a market garden. However the permaculture hippies that I grew up with were far more pragmatic. They used the land that was near by and not being used. But as you point out, there is a mix of opinion, and it all needs to be critically evaluated.
modo_mario 3y ago
>This is another thing that pisses me off about permaculture people, they encourage inefficient use of land in urban environments, leading to a whole bunch of other problems, including higher land value, more need for cars, and MORE environmentally and economically draining suburbs. I don't want a community garden in my most important economic areas, I want housing and workplaces. I dare say the vast vast majority of land affected by such influences would probably be lawn or the like otherwise. Suburbia in the vast majority of the western world isn't exactly rife with small scale subsistence farming and the places where these practices have contributed a meaningful amount are relatively densely populated places in Europe where it used to be the norm and plots were divided accordingly in an inflexible way before the scale of modern agriculture being common. When it comes to market gardening for income you need more even if less. It is extremely rare for it to make sense in an urban environment where denser construction is an option not blocked by other factors. In many places you can get many manyfold the acreage by selling off and going outside of such urban environments.

KaiserPro 3y ago

> they encourage inefficient use of land in urban environments I think that depends on which country/state you are in. In the UK, I'm sure there are people who want to turn everywhere into a market garden. However the permaculture hippies that I grew up with were far more pragmatic. They used the land that was near by and not being used. But as you point out, there is a mix of opinion, and it all needs to be critically evaluated.

modo_mario 3y ago

>This is another thing that pisses me off about permaculture people, they encourage inefficient use of land in urban environments, leading to a whole bunch of other problems, including higher land value, more need for cars, and MORE environmentally and economically draining suburbs. I don't want a community garden in my most important economic areas, I want housing and workplaces. I dare say the vast vast majority of land affected by such influences would probably be lawn or the like otherwise. Suburbia in the vast majority of the western world isn't exactly rife with small scale subsistence farming and the places where these practices have contributed a meaningful amount are relatively densely populated places in Europe where it used to be the norm and plots were divided accordingly in an inflexible way before the scale of modern agriculture being common. When it comes to market gardening for income you need more even if less. It is extremely rare for it to make sense in an urban environment where denser construction is an option not blocked by other factors. In many places you can get many manyfold the acreage by selling off and going outside of such urban environments.