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Brain damage by physical trauma, disease, oxygen deprivation, etc. has dramatic and often permanent effects on the mind. The effect of drugs (including alcohol

Brain damage by physical trauma, disease, oxygen deprivation, etc. has dramatic and often permanent effects on the mind. The effect of drugs (including alcohol) on the mind. Of note is anesthesia which can reliably and reversibly stop internal experience in the mind. For a non-physical soul to hold our mind we would expect significant divergence from the above. Out of body experiences and similar are indistinguishable from dreams/hallucinations when tested against external reality (remote viewing and the like).

mensetmanusman 3y ago
“For a non-physical soul to hold our mind we would expect significant divergence from the above.” This sounds like it assumes a physical mind could access a non-physical soul. All we probably know is that we have to be using an intact mind to use free will.
chimprich 3y ago
> Brain damage by physical trauma, disease, oxygen deprivation, etc. has dramatic and often permanent effects on the mind. That's not a completely watertight argument. Consider a traditional FM/AM radio. You can modify it, damage it, and get notable changes to its behaviour... > Of note is anesthesia which can reliably and reversibly stop internal experience in the mind ...turn it off and on again... > For a non-physical soul to hold our mind we would expect significant divergence from the above. ... yet concluding that all the noises produced from the radio are purely internal, mechanical and physical would be the wrong conclusion. (I'm not arguing that the human brain/mind is anything like analogous to a radio, just pointing out the limits of this approach.)
- int_19h 3y ago
  I mean, if we're really going to go there, who's to say that a large enough LLM doesn't automatically receive a soul simply because that's one of the fundamental laws of the universe as decreed by the Creator?
  - chimprich 3y ago
    Going where? I wasn't arguing for the existence of a soul. Although, sure, if we could somehow manage to determine that souls did exist then presumably an AI model as capable as a human would also be eligible for one.

mensetmanusman 3y ago

“For a non-physical soul to hold our mind we would expect significant divergence from the above.” This sounds like it assumes a physical mind could access a non-physical soul. All we probably know is that we have to be using an intact mind to use free will.

chimprich 3y ago

> Brain damage by physical trauma, disease, oxygen deprivation, etc. has dramatic and often permanent effects on the mind. That's not a completely watertight argument. Consider a traditional FM/AM radio. You can modify it, damage it, and get notable changes to its behaviour... > Of note is anesthesia which can reliably and reversibly stop internal experience in the mind ...turn it off and on again... > For a non-physical soul to hold our mind we would expect significant divergence from the above. ... yet concluding that all the noises produced from the radio are purely internal, mechanical and physical would be the wrong conclusion. (I'm not arguing that the human brain/mind is anything like analogous to a radio, just pointing out the limits of this approach.)

int_19h 3y ago
I mean, if we're really going to go there, who's to say that a large enough LLM doesn't automatically receive a soul simply because that's one of the fundamental laws of the universe as decreed by the Creator?
- chimprich 3y ago
  Going where? I wasn't arguing for the existence of a soul. Although, sure, if we could somehow manage to determine that souls did exist then presumably an AI model as capable as a human would also be eligible for one.