3 ms·

There are two sides here that should not be confused. One on side we have "the network", i.e. the ability for these tags to be tracked through a myriad of iPhon

There are two sides here that should not be confused. One on side we have "the network", i.e. the ability for these tags to be tracked through a myriad of iPhone owners that are not even aware that they are doing the tracking. On the other hand, we have the broadcasts emitted by the tag itself, which can announce the presence of the tag to a _nearby_ stalker. What actually makes these tags interesting, I think, is the network. While changing the firmware of the tags makes it (probably) easier to track nearby ones "locally" with specialized software, it will not change its interaction with the Apple network whatsoever -- it will not make it easier nor harder to stalk long-distance. And if you are only interested in "local area stalking", I presume there are much smaller, cheaper and even more conspicuously looking trackers than an Apple AirTag.

saurik 3y ago
> What actually makes these tags interesting, I think, is the network. I mean, that mostly only makes them more interesting for the stalking use case, no? If you left your wallet at a restaurant, you don't need the network: you need your phone to notice it lost the connectivity to the wallet when you left the restaurant and you need the ability to find where in the restaurant it might be once you go back there to get it. I've been using Tile for years and have been extremely happy--hell: I end up using it every couple days to find something--despite never once having an interest in their "network".
zamnos 3y ago
How sensitive is the phone's "I'm being tracked" algorithm? It doesn't go by tag owner but by Bluetooth Mac. If I I buy 4 tags, register them all to me, overwrite the firmware on one so it rotates between 4 IDs, once every 15 minutes, then the phone won't see the tag as following it. Hell, you could glue 4 of them to transistors, a power supply, and a circuit to turn them on and off in rotation without modding the firmware.
- AshamedCaptain 3y ago
  Why wouldn't it see 4 tags as following it, then?
  - zamnos 3y ago
    It might! I don't know what's in Apple's closed source blob that implements the "am I being stalked" behavior and what parameters actually trigger it. Maybe you need to rotate between 60 tags, or 600.
    - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
      In which case Apple could notice that 600 tags from the same guy tend to float around you...
- theshrike79 3y ago
  Or you could just spend a few bucks more and get a GPS tracker that's 100% undetectable.

saurik 3y ago

> What actually makes these tags interesting, I think, is the network. I mean, that mostly only makes them more interesting for the stalking use case, no? If you left your wallet at a restaurant, you don't need the network: you need your phone to notice it lost the connectivity to the wallet when you left the restaurant and you need the ability to find where in the restaurant it might be once you go back there to get it. I've been using Tile for years and have been extremely happy--hell: I end up using it every couple days to find something--despite never once having an interest in their "network".

zamnos 3y ago

How sensitive is the phone's "I'm being tracked" algorithm? It doesn't go by tag owner but by Bluetooth Mac. If I I buy 4 tags, register them all to me, overwrite the firmware on one so it rotates between 4 IDs, once every 15 minutes, then the phone won't see the tag as following it. Hell, you could glue 4 of them to transistors, a power supply, and a circuit to turn them on and off in rotation without modding the firmware.

AshamedCaptain 3y ago
Why wouldn't it see 4 tags as following it, then?
- zamnos 3y ago
  It might! I don't know what's in Apple's closed source blob that implements the "am I being stalked" behavior and what parameters actually trigger it. Maybe you need to rotate between 60 tags, or 600.
  - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
    In which case Apple could notice that 600 tags from the same guy tend to float around you...
theshrike79 3y ago
Or you could just spend a few bucks more and get a GPS tracker that's 100% undetectable.