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An interesting nuance, but I don't think this should be used to dismiss the mental health effects of social media. Social media affects virtually ALL adolescent

An interesting nuance, but I don't think this should be used to dismiss the mental health effects of social media. Social media affects virtually ALL adolescents, while those other factors listed only affect some. Only a subset of adolescents lack family support or are bullied. The third factor, dissatisfaction with schoolwork, would be extremely hard to discern as a cause or effect of depression

whats_a_quasar 3y ago
Yeah, to add on to this, the article seems to imply a logical leap from - "social media isn't as bad as bullying or having an unstable home" to - "social policy ought to focus on the home and school rather than social media" But I don't think that follows at all. I don't think anyone disagrees that bullying is bad and stable homes are good. And I think that's always been a goal of child social policy. Social isolation caused by technology might have a weaker effect size, but it affects everyone, including adolescents in stable homes who aren't being bullied. It would be great if we had a lever to pull to get rid of bullying, but in the meantime if the goal is to increase child well-being we ought to act on social media.
- xpe 3y ago
  I have no particular expertise on bullying but I am confident there are levers (I.e. policies, interventions, support mechanisms) to reduce many kinds of bullying, much of the time. Different types would need to be dealt with in different ways: physical, emotional, and online. Of course, it is complicated. Bullying arguably is a manifestation of deeper, psychological and social issues. Some forms of bullying are very difficult to find, much less prevent. Unfortunately, many of these kid / young adult practices persist well into adulthood. Personally, I sometimes find it quite difficult to draw lines between a lot of negative behavior. As kids are figuring out their emotions, they act on them in many unconstructive ways. It seems to me the core elements of the worst bullying tend to have to do with (1) it being persistent; (2) targeted on those with less status or power; (3) the victim feels isolated. Again, this isn’t researched, but I did put some thought into it.
  - Brusco_RF 3y ago
    Can you name some of those levers? Because I tend to think that bullying is as old as our species is
    - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
      Bullies need a certain amount of cover and crowds are fairly ideal for it. I'd pull the lever that unwound our budget-friendly, densely populated, age-segmented schools in favor of much, much smaller community (eg:walkable) schools where courses were based on students' academic ability (instead of age) and where student-student support was a focus.
      - Brusco_RF 3y ago
        Your solution is to burn down the entire public school system and re-build it from scratch - that's a non-starter. I also don't even think it would work in principle. You're talking about combining the older age groups with the younger, that's a recipe for bullying.
        xpe 3y ago
        Too many assumptions above, but too few questions. - “Unwind” is very different than “burn down”. Metaphors matter. - Why assume that diverse mixes of ages are worse for bullying?
        xpe 3y ago
        > What do studies show about bullying? In particular, I’m curious about bullying in the context of age segregated schools as compared to age-grouped schools. Here is one output from ChatGPT 4 to consider: > Bullying is a complex issue that affects individuals across various age groups and contexts, including schools. While there is no one-size-fits-all solution to address bullying, research provides some insights into the dynamics of bullying in different educational settings. > In age-segregated schools, where students are grouped according to their age or grade, studies have shown that bullying is quite prevalent. Factors such as peer pressure, social hierarchies, and competition can contribute to the development of bullying behavior. Older or more dominant students may bully younger or less dominant students as a means of establishing social dominance. > Age-grouped schools, also known as multi-age or mixed-age classrooms, involve grouping students of different ages together for learning. In this context, research has suggested that bullying may be less common, as the social dynamics are different from those in age-segregated settings. In age-grouped schools, students have more opportunities to interact with a diverse range of peers, fostering a sense of community and reducing the likelihood of bullying. > However, it's important to note that no school setting is immune to bullying, and the effectiveness of any approach depends on multiple factors, such as the school's culture, values, and the implementation of anti-bullying policies and programs. Efforts to prevent and address bullying should be comprehensive and involve the entire school community, including students, teachers, and parents

whats_a_quasar 3y ago

Yeah, to add on to this, the article seems to imply a logical leap from - "social media isn't as bad as bullying or having an unstable home" to - "social policy ought to focus on the home and school rather than social media" But I don't think that follows at all. I don't think anyone disagrees that bullying is bad and stable homes are good. And I think that's always been a goal of child social policy. Social isolation caused by technology might have a weaker effect size, but it affects everyone, including adolescents in stable homes who aren't being bullied. It would be great if we had a lever to pull to get rid of bullying, but in the meantime if the goal is to increase child well-being we ought to act on social media.

xpe 3y ago
I have no particular expertise on bullying but I am confident there are levers (I.e. policies, interventions, support mechanisms) to reduce many kinds of bullying, much of the time. Different types would need to be dealt with in different ways: physical, emotional, and online. Of course, it is complicated. Bullying arguably is a manifestation of deeper, psychological and social issues. Some forms of bullying are very difficult to find, much less prevent. Unfortunately, many of these kid / young adult practices persist well into adulthood. Personally, I sometimes find it quite difficult to draw lines between a lot of negative behavior. As kids are figuring out their emotions, they act on them in many unconstructive ways. It seems to me the core elements of the worst bullying tend to have to do with (1) it being persistent; (2) targeted on those with less status or power; (3) the victim feels isolated. Again, this isn’t researched, but I did put some thought into it.
- Brusco_RF 3y ago
  Can you name some of those levers? Because I tend to think that bullying is as old as our species is
  - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
    Bullies need a certain amount of cover and crowds are fairly ideal for it. I'd pull the lever that unwound our budget-friendly, densely populated, age-segmented schools in favor of much, much smaller community (eg:walkable) schools where courses were based on students' academic ability (instead of age) and where student-student support was a focus.
    - Brusco_RF 3y ago
      Your solution is to burn down the entire public school system and re-build it from scratch - that's a non-starter. I also don't even think it would work in principle. You're talking about combining the older age groups with the younger, that's a recipe for bullying.
      - xpe 3y ago
        Too many assumptions above, but too few questions. - “Unwind” is very different than “burn down”. Metaphors matter. - Why assume that diverse mixes of ages are worse for bullying?
        xpe 3y ago
        > What do studies show about bullying? In particular, I’m curious about bullying in the context of age segregated schools as compared to age-grouped schools. Here is one output from ChatGPT 4 to consider: > Bullying is a complex issue that affects individuals across various age groups and contexts, including schools. While there is no one-size-fits-all solution to address bullying, research provides some insights into the dynamics of bullying in different educational settings. > In age-segregated schools, where students are grouped according to their age or grade, studies have shown that bullying is quite prevalent. Factors such as peer pressure, social hierarchies, and competition can contribute to the development of bullying behavior. Older or more dominant students may bully younger or less dominant students as a means of establishing social dominance. > Age-grouped schools, also known as multi-age or mixed-age classrooms, involve grouping students of different ages together for learning. In this context, research has suggested that bullying may be less common, as the social dynamics are different from those in age-segregated settings. In age-grouped schools, students have more opportunities to interact with a diverse range of peers, fostering a sense of community and reducing the likelihood of bullying. > However, it's important to note that no school setting is immune to bullying, and the effectiveness of any approach depends on multiple factors, such as the school's culture, values, and the implementation of anti-bullying policies and programs. Efforts to prevent and address bullying should be comprehensive and involve the entire school community, including students, teachers, and parents