4 ms·

That's a characteristic of authoritarianism in general and not specifically fascism.

Retric 4y ago
Earlier forms of authoritarianism like absolute monarchy didn’t necessarily include those elements. Fascist political movements/governments however pioneered them. Thus they techniques are labeled fascist even if they where quickly adopted by communist countries etc. PS: Fascism: “2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control” https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
- dotnet00 4y ago
  I'm not seeing how fascism can be said to have pioneered them, concepts of lese majeste - which, for a monarchy is essentially equivalent to the crime of dissenting against the government - have existed for centuries all over the world.
  - Retric 4y ago
    Scale makes a huge difference here. Early governments used more compromises like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(punishment) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(punishment) rather than just killing thousands of people. As to timing, it’s the same technological developments which resulted in large companies becoming common and being linked to government for the first time with new options for governmental control. Radio, telegraph, calculators/computers, and trains allowed for much larger a more homogeneous organizations. The Hitler Youth for example didn’t have similar parallels in the 1800’s and before. At the same time individuals became less useful to the state. Large prison populations are really expensive in terms of guards and lost productivity. Similarly execution means removing potentially productive people. Historically, only a small number of people within a society would get made examples of until industrialization increased productivity to the point where states could suddenly afford to have secret police capturing large percentages of the population.
    - 988747 4y ago
      [dead]
    - dotnet00 3y ago
      After taking some time to think about it, I see what you mean now. It makes sense.
- George83728 4y ago
  > Earlier forms of authoritarianism like absolute monarchy didn’t necessarily include those elements. Mostly because the technology and bureaucratic mechanisms were not yet sufficiently developed to implement it. It's not as though kings wielding absolute power, ostensibly justified by their god, were champions of liberalism. Maybe a handful liked to think of themselves as liberal humanists, but that was just vanity. More often, these kings had every inclination to be an overt absolute tyrant but simply lacked the technical and organizational means to control large populations in the ways which were developed in the 19th and 20th centuries.
  - Retric 4y ago
    I absolutely agree. Calling such things Modern Authoritarian Practices is more descriptive but it’s simply not what caught on making the meaning less clear. Calling internet censorship etc fascist is a natural evolution of things, but IMO somewhat dilutes the idea. Creating an out group and book burning are part of the playbook, but public spaces have always had some regulations.

Earlier forms of authoritarianism like absolute monarchy didn’t necessarily include those elements. Fascist political movements/governments however pioneered them. Thus they techniques are labeled fascist even if they where quickly adopted by communist countries etc. PS: Fascism: “2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control” https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

dotnet00 4y ago
I'm not seeing how fascism can be said to have pioneered them, concepts of lese majeste - which, for a monarchy is essentially equivalent to the crime of dissenting against the government - have existed for centuries all over the world.
- Retric 4y ago
  Scale makes a huge difference here. Early governments used more compromises like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(punishment) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(punishment) rather than just killing thousands of people. As to timing, it’s the same technological developments which resulted in large companies becoming common and being linked to government for the first time with new options for governmental control. Radio, telegraph, calculators/computers, and trains allowed for much larger a more homogeneous organizations. The Hitler Youth for example didn’t have similar parallels in the 1800’s and before. At the same time individuals became less useful to the state. Large prison populations are really expensive in terms of guards and lost productivity. Similarly execution means removing potentially productive people. Historically, only a small number of people within a society would get made examples of until industrialization increased productivity to the point where states could suddenly afford to have secret police capturing large percentages of the population.
  - 988747 4y ago
    [dead]
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    After taking some time to think about it, I see what you mean now. It makes sense.
George83728 4y ago
> Earlier forms of authoritarianism like absolute monarchy didn’t necessarily include those elements. Mostly because the technology and bureaucratic mechanisms were not yet sufficiently developed to implement it. It's not as though kings wielding absolute power, ostensibly justified by their god, were champions of liberalism. Maybe a handful liked to think of themselves as liberal humanists, but that was just vanity. More often, these kings had every inclination to be an overt absolute tyrant but simply lacked the technical and organizational means to control large populations in the ways which were developed in the 19th and 20th centuries.
- Retric 4y ago
  I absolutely agree. Calling such things Modern Authoritarian Practices is more descriptive but it’s simply not what caught on making the meaning less clear. Calling internet censorship etc fascist is a natural evolution of things, but IMO somewhat dilutes the idea. Creating an out group and book burning are part of the playbook, but public spaces have always had some regulations.