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If you look at the cities built in the Soviet times, where there were no parking space mandates, you'll see what will happen. People still buy cars, and those c

If you look at the cities built in the Soviet times, where there were no parking space mandates, you'll see what will happen. People still buy cars, and those cars are just parked everywhere on the street, in the building courtyards, etc. Only on the last couple of decades (if that) underground parking became norm for high rise residential and commercial buildings in big cities. So unless you somehow plan on dissuading people from car ownership, I feel this will turn ugly... Especially in such a car-centric society like the US.

tptacek 3y ago
This is pretty silly. You can almost always drive quickly from any place in the US with strict parking minimums to a denser urban area that either doesn't have minimums or has so many more people that the minimum doesn't matter --- ie, that the area is at its logistical carrying capacity for cars. Those dense urban areas aren't hellscapes; in fact, they're usually more walkable than the suburbs with the minimums.
biddit 3y ago
I frequent Turkey, which doesn't have parking enforcement in broad swaths of the country. People park basically anywhere a car will fit, including the sidewalks. It's a much more efficient use of space and it's a lot easier to find parking than the USA. And the thing is, things still functions quite well. I'd argue that draconian parking restrictions are as much as a problem as lack of parking lots.
- kachurovskiy 3y ago
  Cars in Turkey cost a multiple of what they do in US and people earn much less. 10k vs 25k for a 2012 Corolla. Also if my info is correct currently people are signing up in dealerships to buy a car next year?
- CalRobert 3y ago
  How is it in a wheelchair or pushing a pram?
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  So what you're saying is it's alright to block pedestrian infrastructure? Sucks for the old guy in a wheel chair
hwbehrens 3y ago
> new or substantially renovated buildings that are within half a mile of a major transit stop Did you read the article? This would only apply to a very small subset of buildings, and is itself designed to be a method to dissuade car ownership among the small slice of the population that is best positioned to adapt to it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
toomuchtodo 3y ago
The US probably should move away from a car centric society for a variety of reasons (or rather, provide robust opportunities for those who want to live a car free or car less life). You dissuade people from car ownership by building non car friendly urban areas [2] [3] and attracting productive members of society there (retirees are also an option of course, different market to market to though ["Sun City", "The Villages", etc). A superior option becomes the default or desired option. With stagnant wages, economically crippled younger generations, etc is ~$700/month in car payments [1] plus operating costs sustainable? Probably not. That's earned income that can go towards more productive uses for citizens (who choose to live a car free experience). If people want cars, there are still ~82 million SFH existing housing units (+ whatever comes online over time) where that dream can be realized. That's not to say you can't still love your car, policy simply wouldn't cater to it. Tangentially, think in systems. [1] https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/average-monthly-car-payment/ https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/average-monthly-ca... [2] https://culdesac.com/ https://culdesac.com/ [3] https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2023/04/07/car-free-cities/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2023/04/07/car-free-cities/
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  > You dissuade people from car ownership by building non car friendly urban areas One of the things that amazes me about Tokyo is how many cars there are. For being the best public transportation system in the world.. people still have cars. To the point of installing parking lifts in their (tiny) homes! If you can't convince even the Japanese to give up cars, your cause is lost. The best we seem to be able to do is to convince them to drive smaller K cars. > and attracting productive members of society there I agree that suddenly things are easier if you can exclude the poor, homeless, handicapped and so on. Unfortunately that's illegal, immoral and impractical. > That's earned income that can go towards more productive uses for citizens (who choose to live a car free experience). Except people overwhelming DO choose cars. This isn't because they've been hoodwinked into it. > If people want cars, there are still ~82 million SFH existing housing units (+ whatever comes online over time) where that dream can be realized. And those businesses who fail to provide parking will not attract customers. Apartments without parking will have trouble finding renters (or those renters will park nearby on roads or in parking lots). People are not cattle. You can't just tweak their pen until they do what you want. They will dissassemble and modify it to accomodate their needs.
haroldp 3y ago
And could an enterprising Soviet get rich by creating parking lots and garages where spaces were especially in demand?
comte7092 3y ago
There are some pretty major differences between the Soviet development model and the US one that make it a bit questionable to posit that just because there aren’t parking minimums, we’ll end up with the same problems. I don’t think any private developers are going to start throwing up commie blocks anytime soon.

tptacek 3y ago

This is pretty silly. You can almost always drive quickly from any place in the US with strict parking minimums to a denser urban area that either doesn't have minimums or has so many more people that the minimum doesn't matter --- ie, that the area is at its logistical carrying capacity for cars. Those dense urban areas aren't hellscapes; in fact, they're usually more walkable than the suburbs with the minimums.

biddit 3y ago

I frequent Turkey, which doesn't have parking enforcement in broad swaths of the country. People park basically anywhere a car will fit, including the sidewalks. It's a much more efficient use of space and it's a lot easier to find parking than the USA. And the thing is, things still functions quite well. I'd argue that draconian parking restrictions are as much as a problem as lack of parking lots.

kachurovskiy 3y ago
Cars in Turkey cost a multiple of what they do in US and people earn much less. 10k vs 25k for a 2012 Corolla. Also if my info is correct currently people are signing up in dealerships to buy a car next year?
CalRobert 3y ago
How is it in a wheelchair or pushing a pram?
wing-_-nuts 3y ago
So what you're saying is it's alright to block pedestrian infrastructure? Sucks for the old guy in a wheel chair

hwbehrens 3y ago

> new or substantially renovated buildings that are within half a mile of a major transit stop Did you read the article? This would only apply to a very small subset of buildings, and is itself designed to be a method to dissuade car ownership among the small slice of the population that is best positioned to adapt to it.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

toomuchtodo 3y ago

The US probably should move away from a car centric society for a variety of reasons (or rather, provide robust opportunities for those who want to live a car free or car less life). You dissuade people from car ownership by building non car friendly urban areas [2] [3] and attracting productive members of society there (retirees are also an option of course, different market to market to though ["Sun City", "The Villages", etc). A superior option becomes the default or desired option. With stagnant wages, economically crippled younger generations, etc is ~$700/month in car payments [1] plus operating costs sustainable? Probably not. That's earned income that can go towards more productive uses for citizens (who choose to live a car free experience). If people want cars, there are still ~82 million SFH existing housing units (+ whatever comes online over time) where that dream can be realized. That's not to say you can't still love your car, policy simply wouldn't cater to it. Tangentially, think in systems. [1] https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/average-monthly-car-payment/ https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/average-monthly-ca... [2] https://culdesac.com/ https://culdesac.com/ [3] https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2023/04/07/car-free-cities/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2023/04/07/car-free-cities/

vorpalhex 3y ago
> You dissuade people from car ownership by building non car friendly urban areas One of the things that amazes me about Tokyo is how many cars there are. For being the best public transportation system in the world.. people still have cars. To the point of installing parking lifts in their (tiny) homes! If you can't convince even the Japanese to give up cars, your cause is lost. The best we seem to be able to do is to convince them to drive smaller K cars. > and attracting productive members of society there I agree that suddenly things are easier if you can exclude the poor, homeless, handicapped and so on. Unfortunately that's illegal, immoral and impractical. > That's earned income that can go towards more productive uses for citizens (who choose to live a car free experience). Except people overwhelming DO choose cars. This isn't because they've been hoodwinked into it. > If people want cars, there are still ~82 million SFH existing housing units (+ whatever comes online over time) where that dream can be realized. And those businesses who fail to provide parking will not attract customers. Apartments without parking will have trouble finding renters (or those renters will park nearby on roads or in parking lots). People are not cattle. You can't just tweak their pen until they do what you want. They will dissassemble and modify it to accomodate their needs.

haroldp 3y ago

And could an enterprising Soviet get rich by creating parking lots and garages where spaces were especially in demand?

comte7092 3y ago

There are some pretty major differences between the Soviet development model and the US one that make it a bit questionable to posit that just because there aren’t parking minimums, we’ll end up with the same problems. I don’t think any private developers are going to start throwing up commie blocks anytime soon.