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I agree that phones/apps/social media/video games are addictive (the ones that aren't just don't get popular) but I disagree with your proposed framework for id

I agree that phones/apps/social media/video games are addictive (the ones that aren't just don't get popular) but I disagree with your proposed framework for identifying "addictive" things for children in schools. Schools are very artificial environments with a massive lack of stimulation and self-agency for young developing human children. Damn near anything is "addictive" in that environment - books, doodling, origami, annoying people around you, etc. Would be interesting if phones would be "addictive" to children used to playing outdoors in autonomous groups in (semi-nomadic, not city-based) pre-colombian civilizations.

spacephysics 3y ago
Reminds me of a rat study that I forget the details on, but essentially they gave cocaine to rats in a sterile basic cage, and they went ham Then years later, a researcher refuted the claim of the original landmark study (regarding addition), by giving the rats a sanctuary with other rats, area to roam, basically a mini park, I believe the rats either didn’t take the cocaine, or did it once and didn’t like it after. Addition isn’t in a vacuum. Anything can be addicting. It’s the environment that matters as well. Soldiers coming back from Vietnam were doing opium like mad, to a point where the US government was preparing for an opioid epidemic (ironic now), then found that rates of opium addiction were FAR below than perceived, most likely cause the soldiers weren’t fighting in a terrifying jungle 1000’s of miles away in a war forced upon them that was a losing battle.
- hypertele-Xii 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park It was morphine, and failed to replicate.
jstarfish 3y ago
> Damn near anything is "addictive" in that environment - books, doodling, origami, annoying people around you, etc. False. If any of that were addictive, the student would continue doing it even when other options exist, and continue doing it despite negative consequences. > Schools are very artificial environments with a massive lack of stimulation Correct but misguided. Schools are artificial environments with imposed constraints. You're supposed to derive stimulation from being interested in the nature of the world around you, but that's boring, so at least derive stimulation from entertaining yourself within the constraints. Everyone here has a story about hacking the school computers to play Doom (a learning experience and achievement, however subversive), but 30 years from now, none of these kids are going to be talking about how awesome it was to mindlessly watch TikTok during math class. None of them will remember what they even watched. The phone has endless "stimulating" content, but it's not stimulating you to actually do anything but repetitively scroll through content you'll quickly forget. It's junk food for the brain, and only "stimulating" in the way stool softeners stimulate a bowel movement-- you shit it out long before you absorb anything of nutritional value.

spacephysics 3y ago

Reminds me of a rat study that I forget the details on, but essentially they gave cocaine to rats in a sterile basic cage, and they went ham Then years later, a researcher refuted the claim of the original landmark study (regarding addition), by giving the rats a sanctuary with other rats, area to roam, basically a mini park, I believe the rats either didn’t take the cocaine, or did it once and didn’t like it after. Addition isn’t in a vacuum. Anything can be addicting. It’s the environment that matters as well. Soldiers coming back from Vietnam were doing opium like mad, to a point where the US government was preparing for an opioid epidemic (ironic now), then found that rates of opium addiction were FAR below than perceived, most likely cause the soldiers weren’t fighting in a terrifying jungle 1000’s of miles away in a war forced upon them that was a losing battle.

hypertele-Xii 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park It was morphine, and failed to replicate.

jstarfish 3y ago

> Damn near anything is "addictive" in that environment - books, doodling, origami, annoying people around you, etc. False. If any of that were addictive, the student would continue doing it even when other options exist, and continue doing it despite negative consequences. > Schools are very artificial environments with a massive lack of stimulation Correct but misguided. Schools are artificial environments with imposed constraints. You're supposed to derive stimulation from being interested in the nature of the world around you, but that's boring, so at least derive stimulation from entertaining yourself within the constraints. Everyone here has a story about hacking the school computers to play Doom (a learning experience and achievement, however subversive), but 30 years from now, none of these kids are going to be talking about how awesome it was to mindlessly watch TikTok during math class. None of them will remember what they even watched. The phone has endless "stimulating" content, but it's not stimulating you to actually do anything but repetitively scroll through content you'll quickly forget. It's junk food for the brain, and only "stimulating" in the way stool softeners stimulate a bowel movement-- you shit it out long before you absorb anything of nutritional value.