6 ms·

This article is super surprising. You mean phones weren't already banned? I would have expected it to be like taking a Game Boy or a laptop into a lesson, inst

by throwaway22032 3y ago

This article is super surprising. You mean phones weren't already banned? I would have expected it to be like taking a Game Boy or a laptop into a lesson, instant confiscation until the end of the day.

coldpie 3y ago
A many-hundreds-of-dollars device that is the core nexus of all of one's social, parental, scholastic, and entertainment lives, which every student has on them at all times every single day, and which every single adult in the country is glued to at all times during the day, is a very different problem from one or two kids fiddling with GameBoys, yes. It's a new problem. It's going to take some time & experimentation to find the right balance.
- hypertele-Xii 3y ago
  Adjusted for inflation, the Game Boy cost $215 upon launch.
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  But still, it's not a thing that should be used in most classes, and it doesn't belong there. Even back in time when "snake" was the best mobile "app" around (so old nokia times), if a student used a phone in class, the teacher would take it away, and a parent would have to come and pick it up in school.
  - coldpie 3y ago
    > Even back in time when "snake" was the best mobile "app" around (so old nokia times), Yeah, it's not 1998 anymore. Taking away Snake is not the same as taking away a student's entire social network. It's a hard problem, certainly, and we need to find solutions for it. But the situation has changed and the old solutions aren't acceptable anymore.
    - yamtaddle 3y ago
      > Taking away Snake is not the same as taking away a student's entire social network. ... during the school day. When they probably have several opportunities to talk IRL with the same kids. Hardly traumatic.
    - throwaway22032 3y ago
      Dude you're in class. It's not taking away the entire social network. It's segregating work and play time. If anything, we need to teach kids to lean in to the people around them, not wander off into Internet rabbit holes.
      - yamtaddle 3y ago
        > I'm actually embarrassed on behalf of any parents that think this way. You're setting your children up for all manner of failures when they hit the real world. I don't have hard data on this, but from what I've observed there's a class divide, going about the way you'd expect. Fussellian middle class and lower's the experimental group, Fussellian upper-middle and higher is the control group. Painting with a wide brush, sure, but that seems to be the state of things. Parents' behavior and attitudes seem to differ above and below those lines, as do those of the kids, including how they treat kids who don't have phones.
        throwaway22032 3y ago
        I like this - the proletarians as the experimental group and the upper classes as the control. I think I'm going to use that.
      - throw9away6 3y ago
        We should but many schools are so behind on teaching stimulating info that kids are bored out of their minds. You got future engineers sitting in class with future car wash employees, and classes are taught to the standard of a struggling car wash employee
    - ajsnigrutin 3y ago
hypertele-Xii 3y ago
Teachers have lost a lot of power within a generation.
SapporoChris 3y ago
From the article "Most school systems already had cellphone bans in 2020, according to federal data, " ~77% of the school system had a ban in 2020.
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  Sure, so what are the other 23% doing? It seems blindingly obvious. In a lesson you either pay attention or twiddle your thumbs. In my schooling you'd get in trouble for, say, doing Biology homework in Physics class, and rightly so.
  - throw9away6 3y ago
    Now a days you could have a wwf match complete with chair throwing and nothing would happen
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  Nb. enforcement may differ substantially from policy.
yamtaddle 3y ago
> You mean phones weren't already banned? Parents won't allow bans. Not only do kids throw fits if a phone is taken (see the teacher get pepper sprayed the other day because he took a phone a student was actively using to cheat during a test? Then an earlier video surfaced of a student punching him, though IDK if that one was phone related) but parents do, too. There's only so much schools can do if parents aren't backing them up—ultimately, the school board runs the school, and the school board's answerable to and largely made up of parents (among other locals, but parents are the most politically-active there, for obvious reasons). Teachers and school admin would love to ban phones, but cannot.
criddell 3y ago
The high school my kids went to (they are in college now) required them to have a phone. They used the camera for projects (videos and photo projects), were told to use the calendar for tracking tests and assignments), and used email and some other app that I don't recall the name of that let the teacher broadcast to the kids and the kids could reply privately to the teacher. A homework assignment would be on the whiteboard and instead of having the kids copy it down, they would tell them to take a photo of it. They used the browser often for the all kinds of things. If a kid couldn't afford phone service they could use an inexpensive or second-hand device on the school's wifi. Apparently it was never a problem though - everybody had a phone. By the end of high school, the kids are 17 or 18 years old - adults. Teaching them to use their phones responsibly isn't a bad thing.
retrac 3y ago
They are generally. But it's hard to enforce particularly when the parents back the kids. The idea of their child not having a phone at-hand 24/7 so they can be surveilled is quite intolerable to some parents. The kids who first had iPhones in their teens or even tweens are now having kids. Many have been smartphone addicts themselves the last ten years or so. As an older millenial, my friends consider it unusual and unwise behaviour, a sign of my general eccentricity, that I sometimes leave the house with no electronics. How many adults experience discomfort when separated from their phone for more than a couple hours? They're in denial of their own addiction often, why would they see their child's?

coldpie 3y ago

A many-hundreds-of-dollars device that is the core nexus of all of one's social, parental, scholastic, and entertainment lives, which every student has on them at all times every single day, and which every single adult in the country is glued to at all times during the day, is a very different problem from one or two kids fiddling with GameBoys, yes. It's a new problem. It's going to take some time & experimentation to find the right balance.

hypertele-Xii 3y ago
Adjusted for inflation, the Game Boy cost $215 upon launch.
ajsnigrutin 3y ago
But still, it's not a thing that should be used in most classes, and it doesn't belong there. Even back in time when "snake" was the best mobile "app" around (so old nokia times), if a student used a phone in class, the teacher would take it away, and a parent would have to come and pick it up in school.
- coldpie 3y ago
  > Even back in time when "snake" was the best mobile "app" around (so old nokia times), Yeah, it's not 1998 anymore. Taking away Snake is not the same as taking away a student's entire social network. It's a hard problem, certainly, and we need to find solutions for it. But the situation has changed and the old solutions aren't acceptable anymore.
  - yamtaddle 3y ago
    > Taking away Snake is not the same as taking away a student's entire social network. ... during the school day. When they probably have several opportunities to talk IRL with the same kids. Hardly traumatic.
  - throwaway22032 3y ago
    Dude you're in class. It's not taking away the entire social network. It's segregating work and play time. If anything, we need to teach kids to lean in to the people around them, not wander off into Internet rabbit holes.
    - yamtaddle 3y ago
      > I'm actually embarrassed on behalf of any parents that think this way. You're setting your children up for all manner of failures when they hit the real world. I don't have hard data on this, but from what I've observed there's a class divide, going about the way you'd expect. Fussellian middle class and lower's the experimental group, Fussellian upper-middle and higher is the control group. Painting with a wide brush, sure, but that seems to be the state of things. Parents' behavior and attitudes seem to differ above and below those lines, as do those of the kids, including how they treat kids who don't have phones.
      - throwaway22032 3y ago
        I like this - the proletarians as the experimental group and the upper classes as the control. I think I'm going to use that.
    - throw9away6 3y ago
      We should but many schools are so behind on teaching stimulating info that kids are bored out of their minds. You got future engineers sitting in class with future car wash employees, and classes are taught to the standard of a struggling car wash employee
  - ajsnigrutin 3y ago

hypertele-Xii 3y ago

Teachers have lost a lot of power within a generation.

SapporoChris 3y ago

From the article "Most school systems already had cellphone bans in 2020, according to federal data, " ~77% of the school system had a ban in 2020.

throwaway22032 3y ago
Sure, so what are the other 23% doing? It seems blindingly obvious. In a lesson you either pay attention or twiddle your thumbs. In my schooling you'd get in trouble for, say, doing Biology homework in Physics class, and rightly so.
- throw9away6 3y ago
  Now a days you could have a wwf match complete with chair throwing and nothing would happen
yamtaddle 3y ago
Nb. enforcement may differ substantially from policy.

yamtaddle 3y ago

> You mean phones weren't already banned? Parents won't allow bans. Not only do kids throw fits if a phone is taken (see the teacher get pepper sprayed the other day because he took a phone a student was actively using to cheat during a test? Then an earlier video surfaced of a student punching him, though IDK if that one was phone related) but parents do, too. There's only so much schools can do if parents aren't backing them up—ultimately, the school board runs the school, and the school board's answerable to and largely made up of parents (among other locals, but parents are the most politically-active there, for obvious reasons). Teachers and school admin would love to ban phones, but cannot.

criddell 3y ago

The high school my kids went to (they are in college now) required them to have a phone. They used the camera for projects (videos and photo projects), were told to use the calendar for tracking tests and assignments), and used email and some other app that I don't recall the name of that let the teacher broadcast to the kids and the kids could reply privately to the teacher. A homework assignment would be on the whiteboard and instead of having the kids copy it down, they would tell them to take a photo of it. They used the browser often for the all kinds of things. If a kid couldn't afford phone service they could use an inexpensive or second-hand device on the school's wifi. Apparently it was never a problem though - everybody had a phone. By the end of high school, the kids are 17 or 18 years old - adults. Teaching them to use their phones responsibly isn't a bad thing.

retrac 3y ago

They are generally. But it's hard to enforce particularly when the parents back the kids. The idea of their child not having a phone at-hand 24/7 so they can be surveilled is quite intolerable to some parents. The kids who first had iPhones in their teens or even tweens are now having kids. Many have been smartphone addicts themselves the last ten years or so. As an older millenial, my friends consider it unusual and unwise behaviour, a sign of my general eccentricity, that I sometimes leave the house with no electronics. How many adults experience discomfort when separated from their phone for more than a couple hours? They're in denial of their own addiction often, why would they see their child's?