4 ms·

I'm not sure if your answer is for my comment, or you posted it to the wrong thread. If it's the former, could you clarify what part of my comment you answering

I'm not sure if your answer is for my comment, or you posted it to the wrong thread. If it's the former, could you clarify what part of my comment you answering?

_a_a_a_ 3y ago
You're talking about terminology being a barrier to entry. Terminology is trivial but suppose we changed it (yank -> paste, kill -> cut etc). Now you'll not be happy with the key bindings (C-y to paste, C-k to cut) and want them to be replaced with the Windows/Mac standard – right? Because developing new muscle-memory for a different style of working is a lot heavier than just learning new terms for existing things. Having done that you'll want all the other key bindings changed surely? And I can see it progressing from their – Emacs regular expressions don't behave quite like visual studio IIRC, for example. Search and replace is pretty weird if you're not used to it. Rectangular selection is very different in Emacs from visual studio. etc. If you change Emacs you lose a lot of what makes it Emacs, and good. So if I'm not misrepresenting you, and apologies if I am, I don't see your demands for change stopping until Emacs resembles, perhaps, visual studio, in which case why not just use visual studio? I hope that makes sense.
- brokenkebaby 3y ago
  Now, it's clearer what you mean. But still doesn't not make much sense, sorry! You apparently see something which I didn't say, and refute something which I didn't say with impressive energy. No, making docs using common terms of today won't make you wish to turn Emacs to Visual Studio, or whatever other IDE you don't like. There are Emacs tutorials written in languages other than English where standard terminology for that particular language used. You know, you would not invent a separate word just to mirror idiosyncrasy of Emacs slang present in English. Trust me, there are no signs that after reading them somebody got obsessed with turning Emacs into Visual Studio.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    Then you destroy any remaining trace of a link between the key binding and the action. You can imagine the conversation "control p to go up? Control y to paste? v to go down – perhaps that's v for vertically down or something? Who designed this crap anyway". Maybe it would work but I'm not feeling optimistic :-)
    - brokenkebaby 3y ago
      Emacs is a programmable environment constructor, ain't it? Significant share of users prefer evil-mode, and use "p in command mode", not c-y. There are people who have custom keyboards (and even pedals) and their bindings often tuned to that fact. So "control y" is not more sacred than the leftmost pedal, and link is ephemeral anyway.
      - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
        I think the mnemonic link matters for beginners, but let's say I agree with you. By calling the link ephemeral haven't you just undermined your own argument that the terminology is a barrier?
        brokenkebaby 3y ago
        Of course I haven't as I made zero claim about mnemonics. We're talking about readability i.e. cognitive burden which by definition increases with amount of unknown words, or words with unexpected contextual meanings

I'm not sure if your answer is for my comment, or you posted it to the wrong thread. If it's the former, could you clarify what part of my comment you answering?

_a_a_a_ 3y ago

You're talking about terminology being a barrier to entry. Terminology is trivial but suppose we changed it (yank -> paste, kill -> cut etc). Now you'll not be happy with the key bindings (C-y to paste, C-k to cut) and want them to be replaced with the Windows/Mac standard – right? Because developing new muscle-memory for a different style of working is a lot heavier than just learning new terms for existing things. Having done that you'll want all the other key bindings changed surely? And I can see it progressing from their – Emacs regular expressions don't behave quite like visual studio IIRC, for example. Search and replace is pretty weird if you're not used to it. Rectangular selection is very different in Emacs from visual studio. etc. If you change Emacs you lose a lot of what makes it Emacs, and good. So if I'm not misrepresenting you, and apologies if I am, I don't see your demands for change stopping until Emacs resembles, perhaps, visual studio, in which case why not just use visual studio? I hope that makes sense.

brokenkebaby 3y ago
Now, it's clearer what you mean. But still doesn't not make much sense, sorry! You apparently see something which I didn't say, and refute something which I didn't say with impressive energy. No, making docs using common terms of today won't make you wish to turn Emacs to Visual Studio, or whatever other IDE you don't like. There are Emacs tutorials written in languages other than English where standard terminology for that particular language used. You know, you would not invent a separate word just to mirror idiosyncrasy of Emacs slang present in English. Trust me, there are no signs that after reading them somebody got obsessed with turning Emacs into Visual Studio.
- _a_a_a_ 3y ago
  Then you destroy any remaining trace of a link between the key binding and the action. You can imagine the conversation "control p to go up? Control y to paste? v to go down – perhaps that's v for vertically down or something? Who designed this crap anyway". Maybe it would work but I'm not feeling optimistic :-)
  - brokenkebaby 3y ago
    Emacs is a programmable environment constructor, ain't it? Significant share of users prefer evil-mode, and use "p in command mode", not c-y. There are people who have custom keyboards (and even pedals) and their bindings often tuned to that fact. So "control y" is not more sacred than the leftmost pedal, and link is ephemeral anyway.
    - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
      I think the mnemonic link matters for beginners, but let's say I agree with you. By calling the link ephemeral haven't you just undermined your own argument that the terminology is a barrier?
      - brokenkebaby 3y ago
        Of course I haven't as I made zero claim about mnemonics. We're talking about readability i.e. cognitive burden which by definition increases with amount of unknown words, or words with unexpected contextual meanings