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> Screen Studio is a desktop app. It means we need some auto-updater No, it doesn't. People used desktop apps perfectly fine before the always-on phone-home er

> Screen Studio is a desktop app. It means we need some auto-updater No, it doesn't. People used desktop apps perfectly fine before the always-on phone-home era of nearly universal broadband. What's more troubling though is that this is somehow a story about monitoring cloud costs, and not a story about why your update interval was every five minutes instead of daily; or why it would auto-download instead of politely (no popups!) letting the user know there was an update; or why you failed to reconsider the fundamentals of your design in the face of the first round of negative feedback. Your users told you they felt harassed and interrupted by your prompts. That's why you were making this change in the first place. That should have told you something.

Spivak 3y ago
User expectations have changed in this regard. If you don't auto update users will never update. Updating your computer or apps isn't a thing anyone thinks about anymore. Don't do it like the OP clearly, and it's really sad that desktops can't provide an experience like mobile where updates are platform managed but you still gotta do it.
- computerfriend 3y ago
  I use a package manager. It's normal, common even. My "user expectation" is that applications don't do this.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Then they don't update. People rarely updating seems a lesser issue than forcing updates on everyone--especially at the application layer.
- dathinab 3y ago
  yesn't there needs to be some auto updater but you don't necessary need to have some or in other words you normally want to integrate into existing update services, e.g. then package manager on linux. And if it then doesn't get updated e.g. because people don't update their system at all then that's their choice and problem IMHO. Just flag a warning/error once the API to your service changed too much or similar.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    If you're on a Linux distro then you have better options (package repository or /a Flatpak repo) and a user-base that knows to run updates. If you're not on a Linux distro then you have neither hence the auto-updaters.
    - dathinab 3y ago
      You mean no options except the Microsoft/Apple app store. And I think you also can hook into the Microsoft updated without being on the app store but not completely sure. And you can just use a existing auto updater library or similar instead of implementing it yourself ....
- fsniper 3y ago
  user expectation was never to update regularly. User expectation is a working application to continue function the same way until a change is required by the user. Users should not have to update, applications should not auto-update unless asked specifically. An update should be voluntary, not mandatory. I hate finding a different application each time I open the same application. Particularly if it's a feature change or worse, a whole UI change. This applies to desktop apps, saas apps, appliances, cars..
  - EvanAnderson 3y ago
    > user expectation was never to update regularly. User expectation is a working application to continue function the same way until a change is required by the user. It does worry me that this may not be true anymore. How many years of the “slowly boiling frog” are necessary, with people growing increasing dependent on software they can’t control running only on others’ computers, before they forget what having locally-controlled software was like? How about young people or those who came to computers late in life who have known nothing different? I’m increasingly resigned to the fact that the industry will wipe away this past. Old man “yells at cloud”, indeed.
    - bombolo 3y ago
      You can just install debian today.
  - mavhc 3y ago
    Should auto updates apply to security fixes?
    - fsniper 3y ago
      Yes I believe so. Unless I particularly ask for it, even security updates should be kept manual. I hate security updates that has zero impact on my use case to be applied automatically. Like a fix for amd64 arch applied for an app currently only running on arm64.
- biinjo 3y ago
  > it's really sad that desktops can't provide an experience like mobile where updates are platform managed What do you mean? There's an App Store for Mac users and there's the Windows Store for Windows users. I bet Linux has some similar offerings as well that I'm not aware of. The services are there but developers have to jump through a bunch of (compliance) hoops (for good reasons) before they're accepted and it's easier to just let users download a ZIP from your landing page.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    I would love if there was an "open" service that any app on the system could use to replace bespoke auto-updaters without having to be distributed via the store. Just like, "hi I'm $app, "run myapp.exe -check" to see if I have an update, and when either the user or the system decides to do the update run myapp.exe -update" And then it's up to the OS that has more complete information to make decisions on when (i.e. don't check for updates on power saving mode).
    - gizmo686 3y ago
      That still requires every app to have a bespoke updater. You just pushed the invocation to the OS. A better solution would be for the system package manager to allow programs to add their own update servers. Assuming the developers package their programs the same way the system does, this allows you to use the exact same update logic. Most linuxes allow this. Add a third party repository to you sources, and you can update their software with the rest of your system. Ideally, you would have a more locked down version, where you can restrict the permissions of a given repository; although I'm not aware of anyone that has done that yet
  - bombolo 3y ago
    > I bet Linux has some similar offerings as well that I'm not aware of. For decades before there was an app store and a windows store, yes.
- EvanAnderson 3y ago
  > User expectations have changed in this regard. I feel like developer / publisher expectations are what changed, not the users’. The allure of telemetry (even if it’s actually used for telemetry, not for nefarious spying and data collection) is just too much for most developers or publishers to resist. As somebody else said, these 5 minute update “pings” seem less, to me, about updates and more about near-realtime usage monitoring.
didgetmaster 3y ago
Exactly. I am actively developing a desktop app (https://didgets.com/ https://didgets.com/). I have regular releases (every couple of weeks) that contain bug fixes and new features. While it would be nice if every user updated every time the new revision is posted; I don't expect that and other developers shouldn't either. If it has been about 3 months since the user last updated; it will prompt the user to update to the latest version when the application starts (not some popup when they are in the middle of doing something important).
rkangel 3y ago
> People used desktop apps perfectly fine before the always-on phone-home era of nearly universal broadband. Yes, and people used cars perfectly well before seatbelts. Except the people that died. If your application is internet connected then you need a good update story so that (if nothing else) you can push out security updates. This is true of everything from embedded firmware to desktop apps.
- m3047 3y ago
  Let me continue your mangled analogy of the connected car and ask: should a braking profile be auto updated while the car is hurtling down the road in traffic at 60 miles per hour in a torrential downpour? Should the cloud make that determination or the operator?
- QuadmasterXLII 3y ago
  Why is a screen recorder connected to the internet?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

Spivak 3y ago

User expectations have changed in this regard. If you don't auto update users will never update. Updating your computer or apps isn't a thing anyone thinks about anymore. Don't do it like the OP clearly, and it's really sad that desktops can't provide an experience like mobile where updates are platform managed but you still gotta do it.

computerfriend 3y ago
I use a package manager. It's normal, common even. My "user expectation" is that applications don't do this.
ghaff 3y ago
Then they don't update. People rarely updating seems a lesser issue than forcing updates on everyone--especially at the application layer.
dathinab 3y ago
yesn't there needs to be some auto updater but you don't necessary need to have some or in other words you normally want to integrate into existing update services, e.g. then package manager on linux. And if it then doesn't get updated e.g. because people don't update their system at all then that's their choice and problem IMHO. Just flag a warning/error once the API to your service changed too much or similar.
- Spivak 3y ago
  If you're on a Linux distro then you have better options (package repository or /a Flatpak repo) and a user-base that knows to run updates. If you're not on a Linux distro then you have neither hence the auto-updaters.
  - dathinab 3y ago
    You mean no options except the Microsoft/Apple app store. And I think you also can hook into the Microsoft updated without being on the app store but not completely sure. And you can just use a existing auto updater library or similar instead of implementing it yourself ....
fsniper 3y ago
user expectation was never to update regularly. User expectation is a working application to continue function the same way until a change is required by the user. Users should not have to update, applications should not auto-update unless asked specifically. An update should be voluntary, not mandatory. I hate finding a different application each time I open the same application. Particularly if it's a feature change or worse, a whole UI change. This applies to desktop apps, saas apps, appliances, cars..
- EvanAnderson 3y ago
  > user expectation was never to update regularly. User expectation is a working application to continue function the same way until a change is required by the user. It does worry me that this may not be true anymore. How many years of the “slowly boiling frog” are necessary, with people growing increasing dependent on software they can’t control running only on others’ computers, before they forget what having locally-controlled software was like? How about young people or those who came to computers late in life who have known nothing different? I’m increasingly resigned to the fact that the industry will wipe away this past. Old man “yells at cloud”, indeed.
  - bombolo 3y ago
    You can just install debian today.
- mavhc 3y ago
  Should auto updates apply to security fixes?
  - fsniper 3y ago
    Yes I believe so. Unless I particularly ask for it, even security updates should be kept manual. I hate security updates that has zero impact on my use case to be applied automatically. Like a fix for amd64 arch applied for an app currently only running on arm64.
biinjo 3y ago
> it's really sad that desktops can't provide an experience like mobile where updates are platform managed What do you mean? There's an App Store for Mac users and there's the Windows Store for Windows users. I bet Linux has some similar offerings as well that I'm not aware of. The services are there but developers have to jump through a bunch of (compliance) hoops (for good reasons) before they're accepted and it's easier to just let users download a ZIP from your landing page.
- Spivak 3y ago
  I would love if there was an "open" service that any app on the system could use to replace bespoke auto-updaters without having to be distributed via the store. Just like, "hi I'm $app, "run myapp.exe -check" to see if I have an update, and when either the user or the system decides to do the update run myapp.exe -update" And then it's up to the OS that has more complete information to make decisions on when (i.e. don't check for updates on power saving mode).
  - gizmo686 3y ago
    That still requires every app to have a bespoke updater. You just pushed the invocation to the OS. A better solution would be for the system package manager to allow programs to add their own update servers. Assuming the developers package their programs the same way the system does, this allows you to use the exact same update logic. Most linuxes allow this. Add a third party repository to you sources, and you can update their software with the rest of your system. Ideally, you would have a more locked down version, where you can restrict the permissions of a given repository; although I'm not aware of anyone that has done that yet
- bombolo 3y ago
  > I bet Linux has some similar offerings as well that I'm not aware of. For decades before there was an app store and a windows store, yes.
EvanAnderson 3y ago
> User expectations have changed in this regard. I feel like developer / publisher expectations are what changed, not the users’. The allure of telemetry (even if it’s actually used for telemetry, not for nefarious spying and data collection) is just too much for most developers or publishers to resist. As somebody else said, these 5 minute update “pings” seem less, to me, about updates and more about near-realtime usage monitoring.

didgetmaster 3y ago

Exactly. I am actively developing a desktop app (https://didgets.com/ https://didgets.com/). I have regular releases (every couple of weeks) that contain bug fixes and new features. While it would be nice if every user updated every time the new revision is posted; I don't expect that and other developers shouldn't either. If it has been about 3 months since the user last updated; it will prompt the user to update to the latest version when the application starts (not some popup when they are in the middle of doing something important).

rkangel 3y ago

> People used desktop apps perfectly fine before the always-on phone-home era of nearly universal broadband. Yes, and people used cars perfectly well before seatbelts. Except the people that died. If your application is internet connected then you need a good update story so that (if nothing else) you can push out security updates. This is true of everything from embedded firmware to desktop apps.

m3047 3y ago
Let me continue your mangled analogy of the connected car and ask: should a braking profile be auto updated while the car is hurtling down the road in traffic at 60 miles per hour in a torrential downpour? Should the cloud make that determination or the operator?
QuadmasterXLII 3y ago
Why is a screen recorder connected to the internet?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]