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Some students still struggle to learn reading in a phonics-based reading environment. Teachers or those with influence over the curriculum get sold on some othe

Some students still struggle to learn reading in a phonics-based reading environment. Teachers or those with influence over the curriculum get sold on some other program that they are told is going to make things better, and it might for a few students, but as explained here, it’s not evidence-based that it’s going to be better for everyone. A friend of mine lives in a well off school district that adopted a non-phonics approach. Her child was falling behind in reading, so she had to teach her phonics at home and then she caught up. She wasn’t happy that she had to do the school’s job for them.

Akronymus 3y ago
> Some students still struggle to learn reading in a phonics-based reading environment. That is to be expected. But as it turns out, the alternative is holding most people back, instead of helping the ones who struggle.
itsoktocry 3y ago
>She wasn’t happy that she had to do the school’s job for them. Imagine not getting pleasure from helping your child learn to read.
- okeuro49 3y ago
  > Imagine not getting pleasure from helping your child learn to read. Bizarre reply given the full context of the comment.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    Is calling out parents who apparently fell for the "we will care for your child, so you can go to work and dont be bothered" meme really so bizarre? I disagree. It is actually high time to do this more!
- civilized 3y ago
  ...where to begin. It's really frustrating when your kid goes to a place all day where their most important job, by far, is to teach the kid to read, and they fail to do it, and you have to pick up the pieces. A parent who has the time, energy, and skill to teach their child to read after work is blessed. Same goes for the kid - sometimes kids come home tired after school and don't want to be subjected to more learning activities! I say this as a parent who has spent a lot of energy teaching both of my kids to read. The younger one has been much harder than the other. And I am just praying that what the school is doing is working, because it's a struggle to get her to spend even more time sitting and focused on page after page of black and white. I've seen some of the school materials and they are phonics-based, so I think it's on the right track, but a lot depends on the teacher. A couple months ago I went to a parent teacher conference for her where the teacher talked as if she could be sure the little one would be fine, because she'd taught her brother who got concepts very quickly. And I had to explain that actually no, the little one isn't the same, she isn't anywhere near where her brother was at that age, and I laid out the specifics. I did manage to get the teacher to make a bit of a surprised face and take some notes about it. People sometimes romanticize the experience of having children too much. In reality it can be a struggle with no assurance that things are going to be okay. And the guilt of leaving your child struggling with an essential life skill feels like sinking to the bottom of the ocean. My little one is currently very young but if she continues to lag, who knows what I will do? I might have to destroy my work schedule to home school her. I love my job and it brings in truckloads of money for the family, but am I going to spend all my time on that and let my kid be failed by the people I pay to help her? Not a chance.
tallanvor 3y ago
If your friend thought that the school was solely responsible for their child's education, that's more on them than the school. Every child is going to have areas they struggle in, and parents are responsible for their children 24/7, not just 6-8 hours per day like the schools.
- varjag 3y ago
  Well she did what a responsible parent should do, what's your point? That she shouldn't mind the school struggles to teach basic reading in the year 2023?
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  Parents will be reluctant to interfere in their kids' education; if I had taught my kids to do arithmetic the way I was taught it, they would have become confused, because their schools were using techniques that on the surface looked different. And the jargon was different too. Perhaps not so much with reading. But with reading, parents don't really need to get into all the pedagogy; just reading to and with your kids will help a lot.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  Sure. And I struggle with this balance myself as a parent. But schools do have some very strong responsibility in education - otherwise why are we giving them prime 8 to 12 to 16 years of our lives? And we pay them and kids spend more time with them than with us (we do not contrary to your post have 168hrs a week with them! Kids go to school and play with their friends and sleep and do other activities. School is by far the biggest chunk of their time pie graph!) . When viewed from that perspective our expectations should be high, while not dismissing our our part as parents and supporters of the school. I don't like the north American attitude toward teachers, but i disagree we should not absolve education system of basic education responsibilities.
- bitshiftfaced 3y ago
  While I agree with your overall point, this case is different. They were teaching a bad method. I highly recommend listening to the free podcast "Sold on a Story," which covers how teaching a non-evidence-based method became the trendy way to teach reading in many schools. A good portion of kids will learn to read regardless of the method. As for the kids who the system failed, many parents had to hire private lessons (who taught phonics) or had to learn how to teach them themselves.
red_admiral 3y ago
To put a rough guess on some numbers, with a phonics-based program I reckon you will get something like 80-90% of kids to read, with a "whole language" one, about 30% at best (though some more kids will end up reading because their parents hire a private phonics tutor, or do what your friend did). Kids with dyslexia or other disabilities affecting reading will need special help (this includes the case of kids who simply need glasses so they can see the letters properly!), and for some severely intellectually disabled kids, they may never be able to read. One of the promises of "Reading Recovery" (the non-phonics based approach) was that it would help the 10-20% who were still struggling despite phonics at school, and if it had done that it would have been worth celebrating. The problem is that switching to that approach in schools actually massively reduced the proportion of proficient readers.

Akronymus 3y ago

> Some students still struggle to learn reading in a phonics-based reading environment. That is to be expected. But as it turns out, the alternative is holding most people back, instead of helping the ones who struggle.

itsoktocry 3y ago

>She wasn’t happy that she had to do the school’s job for them. Imagine not getting pleasure from helping your child learn to read.

okeuro49 3y ago
> Imagine not getting pleasure from helping your child learn to read. Bizarre reply given the full context of the comment.
- lynx23 3y ago
  Is calling out parents who apparently fell for the "we will care for your child, so you can go to work and dont be bothered" meme really so bizarre? I disagree. It is actually high time to do this more!
civilized 3y ago
...where to begin. It's really frustrating when your kid goes to a place all day where their most important job, by far, is to teach the kid to read, and they fail to do it, and you have to pick up the pieces. A parent who has the time, energy, and skill to teach their child to read after work is blessed. Same goes for the kid - sometimes kids come home tired after school and don't want to be subjected to more learning activities! I say this as a parent who has spent a lot of energy teaching both of my kids to read. The younger one has been much harder than the other. And I am just praying that what the school is doing is working, because it's a struggle to get her to spend even more time sitting and focused on page after page of black and white. I've seen some of the school materials and they are phonics-based, so I think it's on the right track, but a lot depends on the teacher. A couple months ago I went to a parent teacher conference for her where the teacher talked as if she could be sure the little one would be fine, because she'd taught her brother who got concepts very quickly. And I had to explain that actually no, the little one isn't the same, she isn't anywhere near where her brother was at that age, and I laid out the specifics. I did manage to get the teacher to make a bit of a surprised face and take some notes about it. People sometimes romanticize the experience of having children too much. In reality it can be a struggle with no assurance that things are going to be okay. And the guilt of leaving your child struggling with an essential life skill feels like sinking to the bottom of the ocean. My little one is currently very young but if she continues to lag, who knows what I will do? I might have to destroy my work schedule to home school her. I love my job and it brings in truckloads of money for the family, but am I going to spend all my time on that and let my kid be failed by the people I pay to help her? Not a chance.

tallanvor 3y ago

If your friend thought that the school was solely responsible for their child's education, that's more on them than the school. Every child is going to have areas they struggle in, and parents are responsible for their children 24/7, not just 6-8 hours per day like the schools.

varjag 3y ago
Well she did what a responsible parent should do, what's your point? That she shouldn't mind the school struggles to teach basic reading in the year 2023?
denton-scratch 3y ago
Parents will be reluctant to interfere in their kids' education; if I had taught my kids to do arithmetic the way I was taught it, they would have become confused, because their schools were using techniques that on the surface looked different. And the jargon was different too. Perhaps not so much with reading. But with reading, parents don't really need to get into all the pedagogy; just reading to and with your kids will help a lot.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
Sure. And I struggle with this balance myself as a parent. But schools do have some very strong responsibility in education - otherwise why are we giving them prime 8 to 12 to 16 years of our lives? And we pay them and kids spend more time with them than with us (we do not contrary to your post have 168hrs a week with them! Kids go to school and play with their friends and sleep and do other activities. School is by far the biggest chunk of their time pie graph!) . When viewed from that perspective our expectations should be high, while not dismissing our our part as parents and supporters of the school. I don't like the north American attitude toward teachers, but i disagree we should not absolve education system of basic education responsibilities.
bitshiftfaced 3y ago
While I agree with your overall point, this case is different. They were teaching a bad method. I highly recommend listening to the free podcast "Sold on a Story," which covers how teaching a non-evidence-based method became the trendy way to teach reading in many schools. A good portion of kids will learn to read regardless of the method. As for the kids who the system failed, many parents had to hire private lessons (who taught phonics) or had to learn how to teach them themselves.

red_admiral 3y ago

To put a rough guess on some numbers, with a phonics-based program I reckon you will get something like 80-90% of kids to read, with a "whole language" one, about 30% at best (though some more kids will end up reading because their parents hire a private phonics tutor, or do what your friend did). Kids with dyslexia or other disabilities affecting reading will need special help (this includes the case of kids who simply need glasses so they can see the letters properly!), and for some severely intellectually disabled kids, they may never be able to read. One of the promises of "Reading Recovery" (the non-phonics based approach) was that it would help the 10-20% who were still struggling despite phonics at school, and if it had done that it would have been worth celebrating. The problem is that switching to that approach in schools actually massively reduced the proportion of proficient readers.