6 ms·
California, which was never a slave state, is talking about taking money from people who never owned slaves and giving it to people who never were slaves. CA p
by unnamed76ri 3y ago
California, which was never a slave state, is talking about taking money from people who never owned slaves and giving it to people who never were slaves.
CA population is cratering for a reason.
- SavageBeast 3y agoTo even take it a step further, like me, a lot of people's ancestors we're not even in the US when slavery was going on.
- nvahalik 3y agoOn top of that… many “whites” were oppressed or in servitude in European countries and came to America for freedom.
- tourmalinetaco 3y agoAnd many Irish were enslaved in America as well.
- mynameishere 3y agoOr, a step further, a lot of people's ancestors died in the Union army. That said. I'd actually be okay with reparations if they did the accounting properly. Step one: Look at the median income in Sierra Leone. Step 2: Look at the equivalent black income in the United States. Find the difference. I'll take cash or check.
- nvahalik 3y agoReparations makes absolutely zero sense. You cannot "improve relations" or "make whole" simply by taking money from one nameless, faceless group and give it to another nameless, faceless group. Real "making whole" happens at a personal level. It involves people dealing with local issues and also an understanding nobody is 100% in the right. We all have problems—we ALL (white, black, brown, etc)—contribute to various societal ills. We all have to be able to look at each other, and openly and honestly bring truth and healing where it can be. "Racial reconciliation" can't happen at the "racial" level.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago> Reparations makes absolutely zero sense. You cannot "improve relations" or "make whole" simply by taking money from one nameless, faceless group and give it to another nameless, faceless group. It's a coinvent way of burying the issue: Reperations Paid, racism is now over. No need to make other systemic changes to things like minimum wage or healthcare.
- nvahalik 3y ago> No need to make other systemic changes Which, IMO, is the real tragedy of all of this. You're right we do need to make changes. But those changes don't just affect _blacks_. They affect _everyone_. People made it a racism issue, but in many way it's not. There are plenty of poor white an brown folks that deal with many of the systemic issues too. They just aren't politically convenient.
- troupe 3y agoCurious how they are going to handle someone whose lineage includes someone who was brought to the US as a slave on one side and on the other an Ashanti of the upper class who got rich of selling slaves to the Portuguese. Do they only get half the money? Does their ancestors offense offset the payment entirely? Do they have to pay more because they were descended from people who did the original enslavement?
- ksaun 3y agoI don't think the type of reparations discussed in the article are an attempt to punish. I don't see any mention of one's ancestors' offenses (or lack thereof) being considered. It's about compensating those who are believed to have suffered.
- porkbeer 3y agoYour logic is flawed, just who is compensating them?
- red-iron-pine 3y agoYou can't say there wasn't racism in California, I'm sure there was / is, but it wasn't like the Deep South where Jim Crow make sure black folks couldn't get ahead.
- flashgordon 3y agoAnd how about folks who themselves were from a colonized nation?
- bartislartfast 3y agoAs a non-american I dont really understand the context here? I get the "CA not a slave state" bit, but is the CA population dropping? and how does this feed into that?
- KptMarchewa 3y agoApparently changed from 39.37 million to 39.24. "Cratering" is as hyperbolic as can be.
- tyingq 3y agoA map where you can track by county: https://www.axios.com/2023/04/07/population-change-pandemic https://www.axios.com/2023/04/07/population-change-pandemic I agree it's still overstated, but the -7% in San Francisco county is interesting.
- dariusj18 3y agoCOVID would probably have been a huge factor in that one. A city known for tech and expensive living, all of a sudden people don't have to go into an office and can get the same salary and live elsewhere cheaper.
- professoretc 3y agoThat doesn't tell you that all of those people left the state, though. A lot of SF folks moved to other parts of CA; housing prices in Fresno went crazy during the pandemic, anecdotally because it was all Bay Area folks discovering that they could now remote-work from anywhere.
- incomingpain 3y ago39.5 -> 38.9
- KoftaBob 3y agoActually according to census data, CA population peaked in 2020 at 39.5 million, and as of 2022 was at 39.02 million, a drop of almost 500k people. While I agree "cratering" is still hyperbolic for that change, it's quite a bit more than the numbers you mentioned imply.
- erispoe 3y agoYes, California's population is in slight decline, the reason is that California did not build nearly enough housing in the past decades, making it increasingly unaffordable to live there.
- the_third_wave 3y agoFrom what I gather by reading and listening to those who left California this is one of reasons why they left/leave but certainly not the only one and often not even the main reason.
- KoftaBob 3y agoThe population decrease has way more to do with cost of housing in that state, the other stuff are side points in comparison.
- unnamed76ri 3y agoThe cost of housing is a symptom of bad government policy.
- KoftaBob 3y agoVery much so
- adfm 3y agoI wish stories like this would keep people away, but the sad truth is they keep coming regardless. People will continue to risk it all to live with earthquakes, floods, wildfires, and a high cost of living just to get away from oppressive situations. If it doesn’t appeal to you, stay away. It may be the fourth largest economy, but they don’t call it the Wild West for nothing. Happy to see the state shed some MBA pork. Maybe you’ve noticed an uptick in carpetbaggers in your area? You know you’ve made it when there’s a McLaren dealership.
- ksaun 3y agoI was amused by the cleverness of your summary. :) But while what you wrote seems to literally be true, I don't think it's an accurate portrayal of what the article (if not its title) describes. I might have overlooked something, but 1. CA would be taking the money from everyone. (I.e., it isn't intending to punish and doesn't single out who is taxed. For example, a poor person who receives the reparations benefits more than a rich person who does, since the latter would have paid for more of the reparations through their own taxes.) 2. The people who would receive the money are descendants of slaves; while not former slaves themselves, this $ could be thought of as a representation of the inheritance they should have received. (But how they determine these people seems flimsy -- the article mentions people who "claim" enslaved ancestors and it's unclear how such claims may or may not be validated.) Regarding CA not having been a slave state, the article mentions the harm caused by prejudicial policies in CA, but then it's unclear why affected people who don't have enslaved ancestry wouldn't also be compensated. Anyway, after (and despite) writing out the above, I think your summary is actually fairly apt (and humorous). But I kind of wish it were less provocative. (FWIW, I think the course of action discussed in the article is problematic and I have conflicted opinions about the concept of reparations. I think it is a complex topic.) I think if more people tried to make less potentially inflammatory statements, it would be easier to have productive discussions about contentious topics. This could serve to reduce tribalism, which I feel would be a good thing. (The article's title is a much stronger example of the inflammatory language that I think should be minimized.) [Edit: grammatical and formatting fixes; criticism of the article's title added.]
- tomohawk 3y agoHow does holding people responsible for the actions of people who died 100+ years ago lead to less tribalism? The very idea is inflammatory, regardless of how it is talked about.
- porkbeer 3y agoIf everyone gives money, and some get that money back and then some, those not getting the money defaco paid for it. Same outcome as a fine.
- easytiger 3y ago