4 ms·

The dismissal of environmentalists as "lol eat bugs" is really fucking sad, to me. It's like you're delighted that this happened because you get a chance to win

by smcl 3y ago

The dismissal of environmentalists as "lol eat bugs" is really fucking sad, to me. It's like you're delighted that this happened because you get a chance to wind up some people you dislike. I mean whatever we say here or believe doesn't change what happened in Turkmenistan, it's just sad to be reminded what kind of hurdles exist when talking about making the world a little bit better :-/

throwawaylinux 3y ago
> The dismissal of environmentalists as "lol eat bugs" is really fucking sad, to me. I don't see it as a dismissal of real environmentalists, more a laugh at the hypocrite corporatist ruling class who take their private jets and mega yachts to conferences where they pat one another on the back and tell everybody else to eat bugs. Them, and the army of sycophants and apologists who they've fooled.
- PoignardAzur 3y ago
  I have a pretty strong suspicion that the average person who holds this discourse does not support political actions against global warming even when they would hamper big corporations and rich people (eg carbon taxes, cap-and-trade policies, closing coal plants, pre-planned ICE vehicle bans in 10 years, etc). The last person who gave me this spiel said it right after suggesting I take the place from france to canada, and got mad I suggested they install an electric stove instead of a gas one.
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Somebody told you to eat bugs and you suggested they get rid of their gas stove for some reason. I don't quite see how it addresses what I or the original poster wrote. For what it's worth, it's perfectly possible to be disillusioned and angry at the ruling class and their policies and their hypocrisy and profiteering at the expense of the environment, while also wishing for real uncorrupted environmental action. Some people are sick of it all and have given up on it. I place a lot more blame on the people who soured their attitudes.
- smcl 3y ago
  It could be that this was the intent behind that comment. However I usually see "they want you to eat bugs" as a scaremongering tactic, when in reality the "they" in question just want some pretty uncontroversial stuff like decent public transport.
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    It's possible, but I don't think that would be assuming good faith or having a charitable interpretation of a comment. FWIW I more often see the "eat the bugs" meme in response to obscenely rich elites and politicians advocating policies that require sacrifice from commoners.
Grum9 3y ago
I dont dismiss environmentalists, only their ineffective ideas, I happen to like clean water and air and think environmentalists are necessary check against corporate carelessness. Most people trying to solve a problem would focus their efforts on the low hanging fruit, in an attempt to have the largest impact in the shortest amount of time. But instead the focus is on petty targets that are simply annoying or unsightly, we ban plastic straws and bags, gas stoves and lawn mowers, loud engines, run farmers out business for using fertilizer to feed ourselves and a growing population, only to find out theres an extra UKs worth methane being pumped into the air because someone cant be bothered to find a crescent wrench and tighten some pipes. If the world ends it wont be because living creatures fart too much, it will because of idiocy (low yield ideas), laziness (this oil field), hypocrisy (the rich on their jets eating steak), and being more concerned with trying to appear to be accomplishing something rather than actually accomplishing it.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  It seems like you've confused 'environmentalists' with various corporate greenwashing campaigns. Banning plastic bags was sensible, it just didn't go far enough. Banning plastic straws was sensible, but replacing them with PFAS paper was evil. Do you think it was natural how much corporate media attention the plastic straw thing got? Do you think it's natural how little attention Coke get in the media for their plastic waste? Do you think environmentalists are unaware of this? The main point you seem to be missing is that there are a small number of individuals making a lot of money from the "low hanging fruit" problems remaining unsolved. You're pointing fingers at an artificial straw-man, one created by PR teams those wealthy people hired. I don't mean this to sound too confrontational; it sounds like our opinions mostly overlap. I just really dislike seeing environmentalists get tarred with a straw brush.
  - suddenclarity 3y ago
    In what way was the plastic bags sensible? We replaced recycled and sugar cane bags with awful cotton bags while instead importing garbage bags from China. The sale of imported plastic bags skyrocketed.
throwaway22032 3y ago
Attacking caveman cultists is not a dismissal of environmentalism. There is an enormous distinction between pure waste or negligence such as what we see here, and genuine activity that benefits people. If I were leaving my windows open with the AC/heating on full blast, or burning plastic in my garden - sure, that's not cool. But going after genuine things with utility (eating meat, driving, having children, etc) is the quickest way to get me to completely ignore what you're saying. These changes don't make the world better. They would make my life significantly worse, whilst potentially very slightly improving the lives of people who are ascetic.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Those things of utility, like having children, is going to fix themselves when the wet bulb temperature is high enough to impede mammal procreation.
  - throwaway22032 3y ago
    Sure, just like how you and I will eventually die of old age. That doesn't imply that we should end ourselves now to skip the queue.
fwlr 3y ago
Making the world a little bit better is an extremely noble goal, but it’s just really hard to respect environmentalists when they’re celebrating shutting down nuclear power plants even though coal plants will take up the slack, or telling me that I should stop eating beef and drinking milk because of the cow methane meanwhile they had no idea my entire country’s bovine population was basically a rounding error because Turkmenistan let the pilot light go out at a mining site. It feels like trying to respect Dilbert’s boss.

by smcl 3y ago

throwawaylinux 3y ago

> The dismissal of environmentalists as "lol eat bugs" is really fucking sad, to me. I don't see it as a dismissal of real environmentalists, more a laugh at the hypocrite corporatist ruling class who take their private jets and mega yachts to conferences where they pat one another on the back and tell everybody else to eat bugs. Them, and the army of sycophants and apologists who they've fooled.

PoignardAzur 3y ago
I have a pretty strong suspicion that the average person who holds this discourse does not support political actions against global warming even when they would hamper big corporations and rich people (eg carbon taxes, cap-and-trade policies, closing coal plants, pre-planned ICE vehicle bans in 10 years, etc). The last person who gave me this spiel said it right after suggesting I take the place from france to canada, and got mad I suggested they install an electric stove instead of a gas one.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Somebody told you to eat bugs and you suggested they get rid of their gas stove for some reason. I don't quite see how it addresses what I or the original poster wrote. For what it's worth, it's perfectly possible to be disillusioned and angry at the ruling class and their policies and their hypocrisy and profiteering at the expense of the environment, while also wishing for real uncorrupted environmental action. Some people are sick of it all and have given up on it. I place a lot more blame on the people who soured their attitudes.
smcl 3y ago
It could be that this was the intent behind that comment. However I usually see "they want you to eat bugs" as a scaremongering tactic, when in reality the "they" in question just want some pretty uncontroversial stuff like decent public transport.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  It's possible, but I don't think that would be assuming good faith or having a charitable interpretation of a comment. FWIW I more often see the "eat the bugs" meme in response to obscenely rich elites and politicians advocating policies that require sacrifice from commoners.

Grum9 3y ago

I dont dismiss environmentalists, only their ineffective ideas, I happen to like clean water and air and think environmentalists are necessary check against corporate carelessness. Most people trying to solve a problem would focus their efforts on the low hanging fruit, in an attempt to have the largest impact in the shortest amount of time. But instead the focus is on petty targets that are simply annoying or unsightly, we ban plastic straws and bags, gas stoves and lawn mowers, loud engines, run farmers out business for using fertilizer to feed ourselves and a growing population, only to find out theres an extra UKs worth methane being pumped into the air because someone cant be bothered to find a crescent wrench and tighten some pipes. If the world ends it wont be because living creatures fart too much, it will because of idiocy (low yield ideas), laziness (this oil field), hypocrisy (the rich on their jets eating steak), and being more concerned with trying to appear to be accomplishing something rather than actually accomplishing it.

mandmandam 3y ago
It seems like you've confused 'environmentalists' with various corporate greenwashing campaigns. Banning plastic bags was sensible, it just didn't go far enough. Banning plastic straws was sensible, but replacing them with PFAS paper was evil. Do you think it was natural how much corporate media attention the plastic straw thing got? Do you think it's natural how little attention Coke get in the media for their plastic waste? Do you think environmentalists are unaware of this? The main point you seem to be missing is that there are a small number of individuals making a lot of money from the "low hanging fruit" problems remaining unsolved. You're pointing fingers at an artificial straw-man, one created by PR teams those wealthy people hired. I don't mean this to sound too confrontational; it sounds like our opinions mostly overlap. I just really dislike seeing environmentalists get tarred with a straw brush.
- suddenclarity 3y ago
  In what way was the plastic bags sensible? We replaced recycled and sugar cane bags with awful cotton bags while instead importing garbage bags from China. The sale of imported plastic bags skyrocketed.

throwaway22032 3y ago

Attacking caveman cultists is not a dismissal of environmentalism. There is an enormous distinction between pure waste or negligence such as what we see here, and genuine activity that benefits people. If I were leaving my windows open with the AC/heating on full blast, or burning plastic in my garden - sure, that's not cool. But going after genuine things with utility (eating meat, driving, having children, etc) is the quickest way to get me to completely ignore what you're saying. These changes don't make the world better. They would make my life significantly worse, whilst potentially very slightly improving the lives of people who are ascetic.

actionfromafar 3y ago
Those things of utility, like having children, is going to fix themselves when the wet bulb temperature is high enough to impede mammal procreation.
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  Sure, just like how you and I will eventually die of old age. That doesn't imply that we should end ourselves now to skip the queue.

fwlr 3y ago

Making the world a little bit better is an extremely noble goal, but it’s just really hard to respect environmentalists when they’re celebrating shutting down nuclear power plants even though coal plants will take up the slack, or telling me that I should stop eating beef and drinking milk because of the cow methane meanwhile they had no idea my entire country’s bovine population was basically a rounding error because Turkmenistan let the pilot light go out at a mining site. It feels like trying to respect Dilbert’s boss.