7 ms·

In the same vein, it's very funny to me how many people are feeding proprietary information to LLMs without giving a damn about their employer's stance on data

In the same vein, it's very funny to me how many people are feeding proprietary information to LLMs without giving a damn about their employer's stance on data privacy.

hamandcheese 3y ago
At least with LLMs I get something useful in return.
- graphe 3y ago
  And that's why I send it info. I used to send Google feedback until I realized it did nothing and stopped being not not evil.
8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
My employer is explicitly against us putting stuff into chat gpt. Which is fair. But sad.
reitanqild 3y ago
I'm lucky because at the moment I work at a public project that is meant to be public and there is no issue at all with checking an LLM. That said, lately I have favored Kagi FastGPT for two (three) reasons: - I trust Kagi a magnitude more (or even more) than I trust any FAANG company except Apple [1][2]. - It seems to be way more up to date. - (It seems a bit less shy.) [1]: Why? Sound business plan, incentives align. [2]: Does it mean I trust them? No, that would have meant I hadn't learned a thing from WhatsApp. And no, after the photo snooping stunt from Apple a couple of years ago I don't trust them either, I only consider them my best option at the moment.
- kid64 3y ago
  I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on where your trust for Kagi comes from? I'm baffled that an ex-GoDaddy employee reselling Bing search results at a premium, with a history of "attracting customers at one price, then increasing the price substantially" (I won't use the legal term, as IANAL), who flags HN posts bringing these facts to the public's attention, has generated so much enthusiasm here. Maybe I missed something?
  - vasco 3y ago
    People that aren't lawyers can use legal terms and give legal advice informally. I just did it for example.
    - kid64 3y ago
      Quite true, but "bait and switch" is an actual legal standard that Kagi likely technically sidestepped, given that (for now) he's still in business. I want to make sure my posts are factual, and I'm not even sure which jurisdiction Kagi operates in, so I won't speculate as to whether the deception technically reached the level of fraud, even though the phrase "bait and switch" is commonly used by laypeople to refer to non-criminal types of deception. Nevertheless, it's fascinating to see "Kagi" and "trust" in the same sentence, and I wonder if this trustworthiness was actually demonstrated somehow. It's more likely we're witnessing some kind of cognitive bias like sunk cost fallacy.
  - reitanqild 3y ago
    > I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on where your trust for Kagi comes from? As written above: "Sound business plan, incentives align." > reselling Bing search results at a premium, Should I also refuse to deal with ex-Facebook employees? Ex-Google employees? These two companies has created a lot more hassle/stress/worries in my life than Godaddy. > reselling Bing search results at a premium, With the value add he offers it makes it a great deal for me. I don't care if other make money on me, even lots of money, as long as it is a good deal for me. In fact, I actually see it as good sign if people make money on the services they provide me, as it will both incentivize them to continue providing these services as well as encouraging others to start competing providers. > with a history of "attracting customers at one price, then increasing the price substantially" I got in at an really low price and got grandfathered into a deal that is still the best in the market. They have announced the change in a clear way and since I was free to cancel anytime I wanted I cannot complain. Had I been tied to the service somehow I would probably have been annoyed even if the service was the same and the price hike was the same, but I wasn't and I find this to be within expectations for an early stage start up. > who flags HN posts bringing these facts to the public's attention I'm not aware of this. Would you care to link some sources? If not I would just expect it was a totally unreasonable post and some happy customer like me flagged it. (And on a side note: While non YC companies aren't bound to YC standards I really hope most companies who frequent HN stick to the standard of not flagging complaints against themselves.) Edit: > has generated so much enthusiasm here. Maybe I missed something? For some of us, a working search engine can save us significant amount of time every day. After first having had a working search engine for years, then lost it and struggled for years with workarounds, I'd say my enthusiasm is rather understandable. And I know this is not everyone's experience, but with my search patterns, and in the bucket Google has put my account, I get irrelevant results all the time and I get irrelevant and insulting ads all the time.
raverbashing 3y ago
yeah, "very funny" as in reckless and ignorant of proprietary data best practices
donkeyd 3y ago
My boss used ChatGPT to write a proposal for a utility company recently. OpSec is so awful here it's laughable.
blagie 3y ago
Why wouldn't people do this? Employees are there to: - Collect a paycheck - Enjoy their job as much as the employer will let them - Progress in their career In 2023, there is usually zero loyalty in either direction. Much of management is about how you get people who fundamentally don't care about you (beyond the above) to do something in your interest. This goes all the way up to most CEOs, so "your interest" means the CEO's interest (while not being fired by the Board).
- TonyTrapp 3y ago
  What a bleak view. This is not my experience at all and doesn't match that of most of my friends either. Many have been loyal to their employer for years, and it goes the other way around as well.
  - relativeadv 3y ago
    I was loyal until I was laid-off. Never again.
    - mikecoles 3y ago
      Did you stop dating after the first time you were dumped?
      - doubled112 3y ago
        If I read too far into the comments on topics like this, I can’t help but imagine some did. First sign of BS, give up and never try again.
      - lapser 3y ago
        This is inherently not the same, though. Sure, companies come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, but a company's first and foremost interest is profit for the shareholder. For a person in a relationship, it's about finding a partner that makes them happy. In addition, you are expendable to a company, whereas people build a relationship and become more and more invested over time. Way more than a company becomes invested in an employee.

In the same vein, it's very funny to me how many people are feeding proprietary information to LLMs without giving a damn about their employer's stance on data privacy.

hamandcheese 3y ago

At least with LLMs I get something useful in return.

graphe 3y ago
And that's why I send it info. I used to send Google feedback until I realized it did nothing and stopped being not not evil.

8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago

My employer is explicitly against us putting stuff into chat gpt. Which is fair. But sad.

reitanqild 3y ago

I'm lucky because at the moment I work at a public project that is meant to be public and there is no issue at all with checking an LLM. That said, lately I have favored Kagi FastGPT for two (three) reasons: - I trust Kagi a magnitude more (or even more) than I trust any FAANG company except Apple [1][2]. - It seems to be way more up to date. - (It seems a bit less shy.) [1]: Why? Sound business plan, incentives align. [2]: Does it mean I trust them? No, that would have meant I hadn't learned a thing from WhatsApp. And no, after the photo snooping stunt from Apple a couple of years ago I don't trust them either, I only consider them my best option at the moment.

kid64 3y ago
I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on where your trust for Kagi comes from? I'm baffled that an ex-GoDaddy employee reselling Bing search results at a premium, with a history of "attracting customers at one price, then increasing the price substantially" (I won't use the legal term, as IANAL), who flags HN posts bringing these facts to the public's attention, has generated so much enthusiasm here. Maybe I missed something?
- vasco 3y ago
  People that aren't lawyers can use legal terms and give legal advice informally. I just did it for example.
  - kid64 3y ago
    Quite true, but "bait and switch" is an actual legal standard that Kagi likely technically sidestepped, given that (for now) he's still in business. I want to make sure my posts are factual, and I'm not even sure which jurisdiction Kagi operates in, so I won't speculate as to whether the deception technically reached the level of fraud, even though the phrase "bait and switch" is commonly used by laypeople to refer to non-criminal types of deception. Nevertheless, it's fascinating to see "Kagi" and "trust" in the same sentence, and I wonder if this trustworthiness was actually demonstrated somehow. It's more likely we're witnessing some kind of cognitive bias like sunk cost fallacy.
- reitanqild 3y ago
  > I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on where your trust for Kagi comes from? As written above: "Sound business plan, incentives align." > reselling Bing search results at a premium, Should I also refuse to deal with ex-Facebook employees? Ex-Google employees? These two companies has created a lot more hassle/stress/worries in my life than Godaddy. > reselling Bing search results at a premium, With the value add he offers it makes it a great deal for me. I don't care if other make money on me, even lots of money, as long as it is a good deal for me. In fact, I actually see it as good sign if people make money on the services they provide me, as it will both incentivize them to continue providing these services as well as encouraging others to start competing providers. > with a history of "attracting customers at one price, then increasing the price substantially" I got in at an really low price and got grandfathered into a deal that is still the best in the market. They have announced the change in a clear way and since I was free to cancel anytime I wanted I cannot complain. Had I been tied to the service somehow I would probably have been annoyed even if the service was the same and the price hike was the same, but I wasn't and I find this to be within expectations for an early stage start up. > who flags HN posts bringing these facts to the public's attention I'm not aware of this. Would you care to link some sources? If not I would just expect it was a totally unreasonable post and some happy customer like me flagged it. (And on a side note: While non YC companies aren't bound to YC standards I really hope most companies who frequent HN stick to the standard of not flagging complaints against themselves.) Edit: > has generated so much enthusiasm here. Maybe I missed something? For some of us, a working search engine can save us significant amount of time every day. After first having had a working search engine for years, then lost it and struggled for years with workarounds, I'd say my enthusiasm is rather understandable. And I know this is not everyone's experience, but with my search patterns, and in the bucket Google has put my account, I get irrelevant results all the time and I get irrelevant and insulting ads all the time.

raverbashing 3y ago

yeah, "very funny" as in reckless and ignorant of proprietary data best practices

donkeyd 3y ago

My boss used ChatGPT to write a proposal for a utility company recently. OpSec is so awful here it's laughable.

blagie 3y ago

Why wouldn't people do this? Employees are there to: - Collect a paycheck - Enjoy their job as much as the employer will let them - Progress in their career In 2023, there is usually zero loyalty in either direction. Much of management is about how you get people who fundamentally don't care about you (beyond the above) to do something in your interest. This goes all the way up to most CEOs, so "your interest" means the CEO's interest (while not being fired by the Board).

TonyTrapp 3y ago
What a bleak view. This is not my experience at all and doesn't match that of most of my friends either. Many have been loyal to their employer for years, and it goes the other way around as well.
- relativeadv 3y ago
  I was loyal until I was laid-off. Never again.
  - mikecoles 3y ago
    Did you stop dating after the first time you were dumped?
    - doubled112 3y ago
      If I read too far into the comments on topics like this, I can’t help but imagine some did. First sign of BS, give up and never try again.
    - lapser 3y ago
      This is inherently not the same, though. Sure, companies come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, but a company's first and foremost interest is profit for the shareholder. For a person in a relationship, it's about finding a partner that makes them happy. In addition, you are expendable to a company, whereas people build a relationship and become more and more invested over time. Way more than a company becomes invested in an employee.