5 ms·

The two songs are very similar in some ways -- similar enough that even Sheeran played them as a live medley. I think the strongest argument is that the common

by djur 3y ago

The two songs are very similar in some ways -- similar enough that even Sheeran played them as a live medley. I think the strongest argument is that the common elements are mostly shared genre markers, and courts have consistently held that genre similarities aren't evidence of copying.

lisper 3y ago
> The two songs are very similar in some ways This is a vacuous observation. Any two songs are similar "in some ways". > even Sheeran played them as a live medley I think that says more about Sheeran's skill as a performer than it does about the similarity of the songs.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  No, it doesn't. Watch Rick Beato put them side by side. (this is not to say it's an infringement; they're just very similar.)
  - wpietri 3y ago
    Ah, thanks. As a non-musician, this helps me see what the similarities are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9rBN4UtkWQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9rBN4UtkWQ
    - lisper 3y ago
      Meh, this is a parlor trick. The two songs have similar rhythms and chord progressions, that is all. There is probably not a single popular song ever written that didn't share those features with some other song out there somewhere. And two songs don't even have to be similar at all to be able to fram them together in a way that sounds coherent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfOx4CmQWLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfOx4CmQWLs
      - AlbertCory 3y ago
        So you can take some other song and make it coherent with Let's Get It On? waiting. this sounds interesting. For the record: I don't think it's infringement.
        lisper 3y ago
        There are many songs that can cohere with "Let's Get It On", especially if you allow yourself to change tempos and keys, which you have to do in order to make "Thinking Out Loud" fit. In fact, if you allow all the diffs you have to employ to map LGIO onto TOL there are probably hundreds of songs you could fit either one to. In fact, there is almost certainly a song (probably more than one) released before LGIO that you could map LGIO onto which LGIO would infringe by this standard.
        AlbertCory 3y ago
        I'm not exactly sure what we're arguing about, since Beato doesn't leave much doubt that it's not a ripoff. The keys are different, but the tempi are pretty darn close. Your "probably" is doing a lot of work here. LGIO doesn't fit a pattern of "unknown artist writes something, sues the big artist only when he/she has a hit." LGIO was a big hit on its own. Led Zeppelin settled this one, for an undisclosed sum. https://www.aaronkrerowicz.com/pop-music-blog/inspiration-or-plagiarism-you-need-love-vs-whole-lotta-love https://www.aaronkrerowicz.com/pop-music-blog/inspiration-or... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXf7mMal5vY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXf7mMal5vY Plagiarism is clearly a judgment call. I don't know if Townsend was willing to settle for a reasonable sum or not. Probably not, since they went to trial, which was just asking to end up with nothing.
        lisper 3y ago
        > I'm not exactly sure what we're arguing about Are we arguing? I think we're mostly in agreement about the main issue. The only thing I think we might disagree on is that you attach more significance to the fact that LGIO and TOL sound coherent when you alternate between them than I do.
tunesmith 3y ago
They're similar in terms of tempo, chord progression, chord rhythm, and chord voicing - despite that the second chord is actually subtly different between the two. When you transpose one, you can hear the similarities. But that shouldn't even be close to enough to be infringement. I'm one to think they got Satriani/Coldplay wrong as well, though. There are just too many examples of songs that make really good mash-ups. 4 Non Blondes What's Going On and Bobby McFerrin's Don't Worry Be Happy, for instance. I'd say those are more similar that Sheeran/Gaye.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  > 4 Non Blondes What's Going On and Bobby McFerrin's Don't Worry Be Happy, for instance. The examples I've found of that sound absolutely awful. The mash up of Destiny's Child and Nirvana is far superior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXGSBpMHcpA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXGSBpMHcpA It's so good the original Bootylicious sounds dull and lifeless in comparison.
- jboy55 3y ago
  What I love about the Satriani/Coldplay lawsuit was there was a third band, Creaky Boards, who first accused Coldplay of stealing their song a year before Satriani. You can still see posts on r/music as of less than a year ago talking about this. However, wouldn't this mean Creaky Boards actually stole the song from Satriani?
- masklinn 3y ago
  > There are just too many examples of songs that make really good mash-ups. A few years ago Pomplamoose was really into mashups, and sometimes I had to remind myself these were two different songs. I just checked their channel, and their two most popular pieces are mashups (Sweet Dreams + Seven Nation Army, and Stayin’ Alive + Virtual Insanity)
- djur 3y ago
  Right. I don't think copyright should apply to similar songs, even intentionally similar songs. Musical traditions worldwide rely on imitation, elaboration, recontextualization of known works.
jemmyw 3y ago
They have a similar (but not actually the same) chord progression. They're in a different key and the melody is different. If you could copyright similar chord progressions then that would be the end of new pop music. > similar enough that even Sheeran played them as a live medley That doesn't really mean much, any good sounding diatonic (chords all from the same key) song is going to share the progression with lots of other songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I
- arp242 3y ago
  > If you could copyright similar chord progressions then that would be the end of new pop music. And many other types of music. But whether you "can" or "can't" copyright something doesn't really come in to play: I can sue anyone for anything, and as long as it's vaguely plausible so it won't get thrown out and my pockets are deep enough I can be a serious nuisance. Whether the claim is ridiculous or not is actually not all that important.
- nikanj 3y ago
  New pop music could still be made by record labels with a massive portfolio of existing music. Basically the same way software patents work: you don’t have to worry about suing yourself, and MAD ensures you won’t get sued by any of the other big players. The next logical step is the rise of the nothing-to-lose patent/copyright troll. Get rights to some obscure piece, then start extracting payments
wodenokoto 3y ago
The amount of songs you can play as a medley is staggering to say the least. Last time this was on the front page we were a few who posted different medleys. I’ll repost my favorite, pachhelbels rant: https://youtu.be/uxC1fPE1QEE https://youtu.be/uxC1fPE1QEE

by djur 3y ago

lisper 3y ago

> The two songs are very similar in some ways This is a vacuous observation. Any two songs are similar "in some ways". > even Sheeran played them as a live medley I think that says more about Sheeran's skill as a performer than it does about the similarity of the songs.

AlbertCory 3y ago
No, it doesn't. Watch Rick Beato put them side by side. (this is not to say it's an infringement; they're just very similar.)
- wpietri 3y ago
  Ah, thanks. As a non-musician, this helps me see what the similarities are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9rBN4UtkWQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9rBN4UtkWQ
  - lisper 3y ago
    Meh, this is a parlor trick. The two songs have similar rhythms and chord progressions, that is all. There is probably not a single popular song ever written that didn't share those features with some other song out there somewhere. And two songs don't even have to be similar at all to be able to fram them together in a way that sounds coherent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfOx4CmQWLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfOx4CmQWLs
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      So you can take some other song and make it coherent with Let's Get It On? waiting. this sounds interesting. For the record: I don't think it's infringement.
      - lisper 3y ago
        There are many songs that can cohere with "Let's Get It On", especially if you allow yourself to change tempos and keys, which you have to do in order to make "Thinking Out Loud" fit. In fact, if you allow all the diffs you have to employ to map LGIO onto TOL there are probably hundreds of songs you could fit either one to. In fact, there is almost certainly a song (probably more than one) released before LGIO that you could map LGIO onto which LGIO would infringe by this standard.
        AlbertCory 3y ago
        I'm not exactly sure what we're arguing about, since Beato doesn't leave much doubt that it's not a ripoff. The keys are different, but the tempi are pretty darn close. Your "probably" is doing a lot of work here. LGIO doesn't fit a pattern of "unknown artist writes something, sues the big artist only when he/she has a hit." LGIO was a big hit on its own. Led Zeppelin settled this one, for an undisclosed sum. https://www.aaronkrerowicz.com/pop-music-blog/inspiration-or-plagiarism-you-need-love-vs-whole-lotta-love https://www.aaronkrerowicz.com/pop-music-blog/inspiration-or... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXf7mMal5vY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXf7mMal5vY Plagiarism is clearly a judgment call. I don't know if Townsend was willing to settle for a reasonable sum or not. Probably not, since they went to trial, which was just asking to end up with nothing.
        lisper 3y ago
        > I'm not exactly sure what we're arguing about Are we arguing? I think we're mostly in agreement about the main issue. The only thing I think we might disagree on is that you attach more significance to the fact that LGIO and TOL sound coherent when you alternate between them than I do.

tunesmith 3y ago

They're similar in terms of tempo, chord progression, chord rhythm, and chord voicing - despite that the second chord is actually subtly different between the two. When you transpose one, you can hear the similarities. But that shouldn't even be close to enough to be infringement. I'm one to think they got Satriani/Coldplay wrong as well, though. There are just too many examples of songs that make really good mash-ups. 4 Non Blondes What's Going On and Bobby McFerrin's Don't Worry Be Happy, for instance. I'd say those are more similar that Sheeran/Gaye.

clouddrover 3y ago
> 4 Non Blondes What's Going On and Bobby McFerrin's Don't Worry Be Happy, for instance. The examples I've found of that sound absolutely awful. The mash up of Destiny's Child and Nirvana is far superior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXGSBpMHcpA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXGSBpMHcpA It's so good the original Bootylicious sounds dull and lifeless in comparison.
jboy55 3y ago
What I love about the Satriani/Coldplay lawsuit was there was a third band, Creaky Boards, who first accused Coldplay of stealing their song a year before Satriani. You can still see posts on r/music as of less than a year ago talking about this. However, wouldn't this mean Creaky Boards actually stole the song from Satriani?
masklinn 3y ago
> There are just too many examples of songs that make really good mash-ups. A few years ago Pomplamoose was really into mashups, and sometimes I had to remind myself these were two different songs. I just checked their channel, and their two most popular pieces are mashups (Sweet Dreams + Seven Nation Army, and Stayin’ Alive + Virtual Insanity)
djur 3y ago
Right. I don't think copyright should apply to similar songs, even intentionally similar songs. Musical traditions worldwide rely on imitation, elaboration, recontextualization of known works.

jemmyw 3y ago

They have a similar (but not actually the same) chord progression. They're in a different key and the melody is different. If you could copyright similar chord progressions then that would be the end of new pop music. > similar enough that even Sheeran played them as a live medley That doesn't really mean much, any good sounding diatonic (chords all from the same key) song is going to share the progression with lots of other songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I

arp242 3y ago
> If you could copyright similar chord progressions then that would be the end of new pop music. And many other types of music. But whether you "can" or "can't" copyright something doesn't really come in to play: I can sue anyone for anything, and as long as it's vaguely plausible so it won't get thrown out and my pockets are deep enough I can be a serious nuisance. Whether the claim is ridiculous or not is actually not all that important.
nikanj 3y ago
New pop music could still be made by record labels with a massive portfolio of existing music. Basically the same way software patents work: you don’t have to worry about suing yourself, and MAD ensures you won’t get sued by any of the other big players. The next logical step is the rise of the nothing-to-lose patent/copyright troll. Get rights to some obscure piece, then start extracting payments

wodenokoto 3y ago

The amount of songs you can play as a medley is staggering to say the least. Last time this was on the front page we were a few who posted different medleys. I’ll repost my favorite, pachhelbels rant: https://youtu.be/uxC1fPE1QEE https://youtu.be/uxC1fPE1QEE