5 ms·

The only people left I see arguing for X are Linux zealots that hate any sort of change.

by symlinkk 3y ago

krupan 3y ago
If you aren't a Linux zealot then why are you even using Linux? Only slightly kidding ;)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
George83728 3y ago
I get better performance (longer battery life, higher FPS in games, etc) with X. I'm not opposed to new software, I now use pipewire instead of pulseaudio. Pipewire is newer and I like it a lot because it actually works better for me. Ever since I switched to it, I've never had a single problem connecting my headphones (which was a nightmare under pulseaudio.) "People who don't like my software just hate all change" is just a cope cliche line from people who can't out-compete old software on the merits which are valued by users. Instead they tell users that their values are wrong ("Why do you need that?") and then accuse them of hating change.
- kaba0 3y ago
  Games usually don’t go through the traditional compositor cycle of Wayland anymore so there shouldn’t be a difference. For non-gaming usage Wayland should actually be better for battery life as the protocol is less chatty. Though of course it depends on which implementation you use.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    > For non-gaming usage Wayland should actually be better for battery life as the protocol is less chatty. "should" is one thing, but you're responding to someone who appears to have actually observed the opposite in reality, so that's not really helpful
    - kaba0 3y ago
      “Though of course it depends on which implementation you use”. Also, wayland is huge in the embedded sector, e.g. many car display uses it, specifically because they cheap out on hardware, but wayland still runs just fine, unlike X.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
        > specifically because they cheap out on hardware, but wayland still runs just fine, unlike X. X was born on Unix workstations in the late 80s and had acceptable performance; there has to be more to it than that.
        kaba0 3y ago
        You no longer draw 3 lines as GUI, nor do you have like a 100 pixels on a screen.
blueflow 3y ago
"Everyone not doing it my way is a reactionary"
arp242 3y ago
I have a bunch of tools that work only on X and don't have clear Wayland equivalent, so I will have to write it. Thus far I couldn't be bothered. I will only have to find "alternative to [..]" for a number of things, and I couldn't be bothered with that either thus far. If not wanting to spend hours and hours of work replacing a set of tools that work very well for me with another set of tools with identical functionality makes me a "Linux zealot that hates any sort of change" then I will gladly accept that description.
- Arnavion 3y ago
  Which tools?
  - NegativeK 3y ago
    Barrier, the Synergy replacement. Apparently Wayland's architecture makes it an actual hard problem. It's the one tool I rely on daily that is stopping me from trying Wayland.
    - neurostimulant 3y ago
      Synergy seems to have wayland support on its recent beta release.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
        A paid proprietary program is not a replacement for a libre+gratis program.
  - arp242 3y ago
    xbanish, xcape, xdotool, find-cursor, xclip, dmenu, my somewhat specific hacked-up version of dwm, various specific configurations in X. Some of these have alternatives that work the way I want, some don't. In either case I will have to spend time replicating the environment I've been happy with for many years by finding and configuring existing tools or by writing my own, all for no concrete benefit. Eventually I'll have to bite the bullet I suppose, but Xorg works well today and I expect it will continue to work well for quite a few more years. As long as it's not needed, I'd rather spend my time elsewhere.
spacedcowboy 3y ago
And us Mac users who still like X[1] 1: https://www.xquartz.org https://www.xquartz.org

The only people left I see arguing for X are Linux zealots that hate any sort of change.

krupan 3y ago

If you aren't a Linux zealot then why are you even using Linux? Only slightly kidding ;)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

George83728 3y ago

I get better performance (longer battery life, higher FPS in games, etc) with X. I'm not opposed to new software, I now use pipewire instead of pulseaudio. Pipewire is newer and I like it a lot because it actually works better for me. Ever since I switched to it, I've never had a single problem connecting my headphones (which was a nightmare under pulseaudio.) "People who don't like my software just hate all change" is just a cope cliche line from people who can't out-compete old software on the merits which are valued by users. Instead they tell users that their values are wrong ("Why do you need that?") and then accuse them of hating change.

kaba0 3y ago
Games usually don’t go through the traditional compositor cycle of Wayland anymore so there shouldn’t be a difference. For non-gaming usage Wayland should actually be better for battery life as the protocol is less chatty. Though of course it depends on which implementation you use.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > For non-gaming usage Wayland should actually be better for battery life as the protocol is less chatty. "should" is one thing, but you're responding to someone who appears to have actually observed the opposite in reality, so that's not really helpful
  - kaba0 3y ago
    “Though of course it depends on which implementation you use”. Also, wayland is huge in the embedded sector, e.g. many car display uses it, specifically because they cheap out on hardware, but wayland still runs just fine, unlike X.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      > specifically because they cheap out on hardware, but wayland still runs just fine, unlike X. X was born on Unix workstations in the late 80s and had acceptable performance; there has to be more to it than that.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        You no longer draw 3 lines as GUI, nor do you have like a 100 pixels on a screen.

blueflow 3y ago

"Everyone not doing it my way is a reactionary"

arp242 3y ago

I have a bunch of tools that work only on X and don't have clear Wayland equivalent, so I will have to write it. Thus far I couldn't be bothered. I will only have to find "alternative to [..]" for a number of things, and I couldn't be bothered with that either thus far. If not wanting to spend hours and hours of work replacing a set of tools that work very well for me with another set of tools with identical functionality makes me a "Linux zealot that hates any sort of change" then I will gladly accept that description.

Arnavion 3y ago
Which tools?
- NegativeK 3y ago
  Barrier, the Synergy replacement. Apparently Wayland's architecture makes it an actual hard problem. It's the one tool I rely on daily that is stopping me from trying Wayland.
  - neurostimulant 3y ago
    Synergy seems to have wayland support on its recent beta release.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      A paid proprietary program is not a replacement for a libre+gratis program.
- arp242 3y ago
  xbanish, xcape, xdotool, find-cursor, xclip, dmenu, my somewhat specific hacked-up version of dwm, various specific configurations in X. Some of these have alternatives that work the way I want, some don't. In either case I will have to spend time replicating the environment I've been happy with for many years by finding and configuring existing tools or by writing my own, all for no concrete benefit. Eventually I'll have to bite the bullet I suppose, but Xorg works well today and I expect it will continue to work well for quite a few more years. As long as it's not needed, I'd rather spend my time elsewhere.

spacedcowboy 3y ago

And us Mac users who still like X[1] 1: https://www.xquartz.org https://www.xquartz.org