4 ms·

The thread is spot on. The hate speech laws have a very broad and vague definition so governments can act on populist impulses. In UK, some guys got arrested u

The thread is spot on. The hate speech laws have a very broad and vague definition so governments can act on populist impulses. In UK, some guys got arrested under this pretext for burning a cardboard pretending it was a Grenfell tower. How is this the governments business? At all? But people demanded "justice" and so the police stepped in [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8akk-nZtuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8akk-nZtuk "hate speech"

bobsmooth 3y ago
The UK is a country where it's illegal to offend people. It really isn't surprising that those people would get arrested but actual perpetrators of the Grenfell tragedy get off scot-free.
c0llision 3y ago
I remember not too long ago Ireland had blasphemy laws. Does anyone remember what happened to the guy who was criminally charged for mocking God on TV?
CommanderData 3y ago
Context matters. I assume you left it out for good reason from your throwaway account? The video alone doesn't explain. Grenfell tower housed mostly a non-British populous. 72 people died horrible deaths and 70 injured (mostly non-Brits), it's the biggest strucutual death toll in UK history. In the video someone says a racist remark. The effigy has cartoons of brown people wearing religious attire. His intent is debatable to some and in a court of law. In my opinion he got away lightly for something hateful and racist. It was shared widely with the same racist sentiment (prominent nazi groups and anti-immigrant faces).
- itisit 3y ago
  Tasteless and offensive? Sure. But why should it be illegal to do such a thing?
  - Tanjreeve 3y ago
    Bigotry turns into a feedback loop that finishes in violence often encoded in political systems and then you get violence + state. E.g Nazis started with "remove Jews from Germany" then shockingly when a lot of Jewish people don't want to leave their homes then it escalates as the bigotry whipped up at first runs into the reality of how to make it real. By the time they seized the full state machinery then it was too late.
    - v0idzer0 3y ago
      No one can or will ever agree on what is and isn’t bigotry and the views of those who do agree are constantly changing. It’s a ridiculous thing to attempt to make illegal. Those who try are destined to find themselves jailed for bigotry.
      - Tanjreeve 3y ago
        Has this ever actually happened?
    - Bran_son 3y ago
      > Bigotry turns into a feedback loop that finishes in violence Completely agreed. So long as I get to define what is bigotry, and what is valid grievance.
      - Tanjreeve 3y ago
        Why not established political mechanisms and democratic pressure?
    - prepend 3y ago
      > Bigotry turns into a feedback loop that finishes in violence often encoded in political systems and then you get violence + state. I don’t think this is a causal relationship. Just think about the trillions of acts of bigotry that take place each year and how few of them result in genocide. Bigotry is bad, genocide is super duper bad. But saying one leads to the other needs to be qualified that it’s like a one in a billion chance. Equating bigotry with genocide debases the severity of genocide and is like saying unkindness leads to genocide. Or that not saying “bless you” leads to a feedback loop that ends in murder.

bobsmooth 3y ago

The UK is a country where it's illegal to offend people. It really isn't surprising that those people would get arrested but actual perpetrators of the Grenfell tragedy get off scot-free.

c0llision 3y ago

I remember not too long ago Ireland had blasphemy laws. Does anyone remember what happened to the guy who was criminally charged for mocking God on TV?

CommanderData 3y ago

Context matters. I assume you left it out for good reason from your throwaway account? The video alone doesn't explain. Grenfell tower housed mostly a non-British populous. 72 people died horrible deaths and 70 injured (mostly non-Brits), it's the biggest strucutual death toll in UK history. In the video someone says a racist remark. The effigy has cartoons of brown people wearing religious attire. His intent is debatable to some and in a court of law. In my opinion he got away lightly for something hateful and racist. It was shared widely with the same racist sentiment (prominent nazi groups and anti-immigrant faces).

itisit 3y ago
Tasteless and offensive? Sure. But why should it be illegal to do such a thing?
- Tanjreeve 3y ago
  Bigotry turns into a feedback loop that finishes in violence often encoded in political systems and then you get violence + state. E.g Nazis started with "remove Jews from Germany" then shockingly when a lot of Jewish people don't want to leave their homes then it escalates as the bigotry whipped up at first runs into the reality of how to make it real. By the time they seized the full state machinery then it was too late.
  - v0idzer0 3y ago
    No one can or will ever agree on what is and isn’t bigotry and the views of those who do agree are constantly changing. It’s a ridiculous thing to attempt to make illegal. Those who try are destined to find themselves jailed for bigotry.
    - Tanjreeve 3y ago
      Has this ever actually happened?
  - Bran_son 3y ago
    > Bigotry turns into a feedback loop that finishes in violence Completely agreed. So long as I get to define what is bigotry, and what is valid grievance.
    - Tanjreeve 3y ago
      Why not established political mechanisms and democratic pressure?
  - prepend 3y ago
    > Bigotry turns into a feedback loop that finishes in violence often encoded in political systems and then you get violence + state. I don’t think this is a causal relationship. Just think about the trillions of acts of bigotry that take place each year and how few of them result in genocide. Bigotry is bad, genocide is super duper bad. But saying one leads to the other needs to be qualified that it’s like a one in a billion chance. Equating bigotry with genocide debases the severity of genocide and is like saying unkindness leads to genocide. Or that not saying “bless you” leads to a feedback loop that ends in murder.