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Two charitable readings would be that the author is either: * Suggesting Steam is a platform like any other, and therefore likely to experience the same proces

by Jochim 3y ago

Two charitable readings would be that the author is either: * Suggesting Steam is a platform like any other, and therefore likely to experience the same process. * Critical of the quality of some of the titles released on the platform. Steam used to be much more selective in deciding which games made it on to their store. Indie developers and even small publishers were often unable to get their games approved for distribution. This didn't start to change until the introduction of Steam Greenlight[0] in 2012, allowing users to vote on which indie games they'd like to see on the platform for the first time. However, approvals were still heavily curated compared to what we have today. Greenlight was replaced by Steam Direct[1] in 2017. I don't necessarily disagree with either, although I do think Steam has been improving rather than "shittifying". Wading through low quality games is annoying but there are a lot of fantastic games that would never have been approved under the old system; Vampire Survivors is a great example of something that probably would have gone straight in the bin. [0] https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1265922321514182595?snr=2_groupannouncements_detail_ https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail... [1] https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1328973169870947116 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...

bombcar 3y ago
Isn't Valve privately held? If Gabe doesn't give a shit about "maximizing his shareholder value by enshittification" it won't occur.
- lp0_on_fire 3y ago
  We are very lucky that Valve is privately owned and that GabeN retains majority control (at least he did last I checked). He is famously "pro gamer" and IMO one of the main reasons Valve hasn't gone through enshittification (yet). My fear is that once he goes, the bulwark goes with him.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  Aye, it is. GabeN and a few others. Also means they don't have to grind or worry about specific quarterly performance. It shows -- the platform is generally pretty good. I've had grumbles, but compared to most of the other paid software I use, Steam still delivers -- even on Fedora Linux. Proton in Linux is great, btw. Been able to run Cyberpunk 2077, Horizon ZD, and other major games with little to no issue. Shout out to the ProtonDB and WineDB -- if anything doesn't work they usually have the answers on how to fix.
waboremo 3y ago
Yes to the first. Steam is a platform like any other, and it has demonstrated that it no longer cares after its users have dedicated themselves to the platform by having gigantic collections. It's a lock in like any other, and Steam benefits, they've been able to not give a single damn about anything for years. They're able to buy studios and cancel projects at will because what's going to happen? You're going to stop buying on Steam? Yeah right. The only real exception to this are the devs working on Proton.
- dangus 3y ago
  I think you need some examples. Valve hasn’t behaved in the way you described at all. Buying studios and canceling their projects? What are you even talking about? Valve’s console allows other competing game stores to run on it out of the box. It even and directly supports installing Windows. Any other console manufacturers doing that? I would argue that anyone who wants to stop buying on Steam has almost no friction to doing so compared to other platforms. All you have to do is buy all your games from somewhere else from now on. You don’t have to replace any Valve hardware you own because their hardware is the most open and well-supported on the market. I’m just struggling to figure out how Valve “no longer cares.”
  - Firmwarrior 3y ago
    yeah, this is a weird thread I actually hate Steam. I despise Steam. But I have to go to bat for them here and say that they don't seem any worse today than they ever have been, and every time I get dragged into opening their shitty app to buy a game that isn't available elsewhere, the app is at least a little better than it was last time I used it. The only things about them that are particularly user-hostile and make me hate them are: 1. DRM - The DRM isn't particularly onerous but it is there. All your dozens or hundreds of games get locked together into one account, and even if you own two or three computers, you can only play a game on one of them at a time. This made it very difficult for me to maintain a VR gaming station at my house, since my nephews playing VR upstairs meant that I couldn't play DotA 2 downstairs unless I started a second account. 2. Customer Service - Their customer service isn't as nonexistent as some companies', but it's pretty thin on the ground So far as I can tell, they seem to go out of their way not to enshittify anything in any way ever.
WeylandYutani 3y ago
I don't think a lot of people are wading through the endless sea of indieshit games. As per your example: how did we learn about Vampire Survivors? From neogaf or kotaku or some eceleb video. Someone is doing the curation for us.
- Jochim 3y ago
  I found Vampire Survivors in Steam's "Discovery Queue". I didn't buy it at first but it was recommended in one of the "Since you like X" carousels and it was so cheap that I didn't really care if it was bad. I've found a fair few games through the Steam store that I've really enjoyed. Two off the top of my head: - "Gunfire reborn" is a fun rogue-like shooter from a chinese developer. - "Risk of Rain 2", another roguelike. I'd played the original 2d version and didn't particularly enjoy it. The 3D sequel was great.
dangus 3y ago
Personally I think the author doesn’t realize that Steam is an exception to this theory. It’s a private company that’s majority owned by a relatively idealistic founder. It’s also not really a social media company in the traditional sense, and it doesn’t really live and die on advertisements. I also think that the lack of gatekeeping on low quality games is actually more of a benefit than a drawback considering Steam’s robust review system and lenient return policy. Customers on steam want to play unfinished games so long as the early access disclaimer is there, and the indie PC scene that has low barrier to entry has launched some of the gaming infustry’s biggest hits (like Minecraft, Stardew Valley, Terraria, etc). The old school console system where developers have to sign contracts and shell out thousands of dollars for SDKs led to less innovative software.

by Jochim 3y ago

bombcar 3y ago

Isn't Valve privately held? If Gabe doesn't give a shit about "maximizing his shareholder value by enshittification" it won't occur.

lp0_on_fire 3y ago
We are very lucky that Valve is privately owned and that GabeN retains majority control (at least he did last I checked). He is famously "pro gamer" and IMO one of the main reasons Valve hasn't gone through enshittification (yet). My fear is that once he goes, the bulwark goes with him.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
Aye, it is. GabeN and a few others. Also means they don't have to grind or worry about specific quarterly performance. It shows -- the platform is generally pretty good. I've had grumbles, but compared to most of the other paid software I use, Steam still delivers -- even on Fedora Linux. Proton in Linux is great, btw. Been able to run Cyberpunk 2077, Horizon ZD, and other major games with little to no issue. Shout out to the ProtonDB and WineDB -- if anything doesn't work they usually have the answers on how to fix.

waboremo 3y ago

Yes to the first. Steam is a platform like any other, and it has demonstrated that it no longer cares after its users have dedicated themselves to the platform by having gigantic collections. It's a lock in like any other, and Steam benefits, they've been able to not give a single damn about anything for years. They're able to buy studios and cancel projects at will because what's going to happen? You're going to stop buying on Steam? Yeah right. The only real exception to this are the devs working on Proton.

dangus 3y ago
I think you need some examples. Valve hasn’t behaved in the way you described at all. Buying studios and canceling their projects? What are you even talking about? Valve’s console allows other competing game stores to run on it out of the box. It even and directly supports installing Windows. Any other console manufacturers doing that? I would argue that anyone who wants to stop buying on Steam has almost no friction to doing so compared to other platforms. All you have to do is buy all your games from somewhere else from now on. You don’t have to replace any Valve hardware you own because their hardware is the most open and well-supported on the market. I’m just struggling to figure out how Valve “no longer cares.”
- Firmwarrior 3y ago
  yeah, this is a weird thread I actually hate Steam. I despise Steam. But I have to go to bat for them here and say that they don't seem any worse today than they ever have been, and every time I get dragged into opening their shitty app to buy a game that isn't available elsewhere, the app is at least a little better than it was last time I used it. The only things about them that are particularly user-hostile and make me hate them are: 1. DRM - The DRM isn't particularly onerous but it is there. All your dozens or hundreds of games get locked together into one account, and even if you own two or three computers, you can only play a game on one of them at a time. This made it very difficult for me to maintain a VR gaming station at my house, since my nephews playing VR upstairs meant that I couldn't play DotA 2 downstairs unless I started a second account. 2. Customer Service - Their customer service isn't as nonexistent as some companies', but it's pretty thin on the ground So far as I can tell, they seem to go out of their way not to enshittify anything in any way ever.

WeylandYutani 3y ago

I don't think a lot of people are wading through the endless sea of indieshit games. As per your example: how did we learn about Vampire Survivors? From neogaf or kotaku or some eceleb video. Someone is doing the curation for us.

Jochim 3y ago
I found Vampire Survivors in Steam's "Discovery Queue". I didn't buy it at first but it was recommended in one of the "Since you like X" carousels and it was so cheap that I didn't really care if it was bad. I've found a fair few games through the Steam store that I've really enjoyed. Two off the top of my head: - "Gunfire reborn" is a fun rogue-like shooter from a chinese developer. - "Risk of Rain 2", another roguelike. I'd played the original 2d version and didn't particularly enjoy it. The 3D sequel was great.

dangus 3y ago

Personally I think the author doesn’t realize that Steam is an exception to this theory. It’s a private company that’s majority owned by a relatively idealistic founder. It’s also not really a social media company in the traditional sense, and it doesn’t really live and die on advertisements. I also think that the lack of gatekeeping on low quality games is actually more of a benefit than a drawback considering Steam’s robust review system and lenient return policy. Customers on steam want to play unfinished games so long as the early access disclaimer is there, and the indie PC scene that has low barrier to entry has launched some of the gaming infustry’s biggest hits (like Minecraft, Stardew Valley, Terraria, etc). The old school console system where developers have to sign contracts and shell out thousands of dollars for SDKs led to less innovative software.