4 ms·

> One we're arming Kyiv. That they've incorporated members with a problematic past is known and, frankly, rational. (Can't be choosy when an actual fascist neig

> One we're arming Kyiv. That they've incorporated members with a problematic past is known and, frankly, rational. (Can't be choosy when an actual fascist neighbor is invading.) If you're arming Kiev and Kiev is arming these "members with a problematic past" (nice euphemism) then you're also arming them. Looks like this logic worked well for Iraq and Afghanistan, it only caused milions of deaths and decades of destruction. > Two, the Azov Brigade was destroyed (after fighting bravely) at Mariupol Get up to date, the Azov Brigade has been long restored and rearmed. They have new members and they trained them already.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> If you're arming Kiev and Kiev is arming these "members with a problematic past" (nice euphemism) then you're also arming them Which, again, is (largely) not happening. The Azov regiment fell last May; our weapons had barely begun arriving in Kyiv then. > this logic worked well for Iraq and Afghanistan You're comparing a dictator and terrorist insurgencies with a democracy. Ukraine is closer to WWII. We aren't trying to create a state where one never existed, destroy a state that was previously stable or cause an insurgency to annoy someone; we're helping an extant state fight for survival. (Also, are you arguing nobody in Britain or France or Poland in WWII had problematic views? Does that mean the American war effort, and subsequent Marshall Plan, was in support of those elements?) > the Azov Brigade has been long restored and rearmed. They have new members and they trained them already So a new group of people adopted fallen symbols, and we're supposed to assume ideological continuity [1]? I'm not going to argue there is no far-right element in Ukraine, or even in the Ukrainian military. In an ideal, world, they'd be expelled. But in an ideal world, Moscow wouldn't be launching a land war in Europe. It's misleading to the point of incorrectness to say we're arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine, or that these people form a significant amount of the present Ukrainian military or state, or that they have material influence over Kyiv. [1] https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2022-06-01/ty-article-magazine/.premium/understanding-ukrainian-nationalism-and-claims-its-tainted-by-nazism/00000181-1a0c-d9b4-a199-be1e4a3c0000 https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2022-06-01/ty-arti...
Sporktacular 3y ago
The fascist party has zero seats in parliament. Both the president and prime minister of Ukraine are Jewish and there was discussion about prosecuting Azov before they were wiped out in the fighting. Every country has fascists, overstating their number in Ukraine is Russian propaganda.
wahnfrieden 3y ago
the ministry of defense in ukraine posts photos on their twitter of soldiers with totenkopf centered prominently

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> If you're arming Kiev and Kiev is arming these "members with a problematic past" (nice euphemism) then you're also arming them Which, again, is (largely) not happening. The Azov regiment fell last May; our weapons had barely begun arriving in Kyiv then. > this logic worked well for Iraq and Afghanistan You're comparing a dictator and terrorist insurgencies with a democracy. Ukraine is closer to WWII. We aren't trying to create a state where one never existed, destroy a state that was previously stable or cause an insurgency to annoy someone; we're helping an extant state fight for survival. (Also, are you arguing nobody in Britain or France or Poland in WWII had problematic views? Does that mean the American war effort, and subsequent Marshall Plan, was in support of those elements?) > the Azov Brigade has been long restored and rearmed. They have new members and they trained them already So a new group of people adopted fallen symbols, and we're supposed to assume ideological continuity [1]? I'm not going to argue there is no far-right element in Ukraine, or even in the Ukrainian military. In an ideal, world, they'd be expelled. But in an ideal world, Moscow wouldn't be launching a land war in Europe. It's misleading to the point of incorrectness to say we're arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine, or that these people form a significant amount of the present Ukrainian military or state, or that they have material influence over Kyiv. [1] https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2022-06-01/ty-article-magazine/.premium/understanding-ukrainian-nationalism-and-claims-its-tainted-by-nazism/00000181-1a0c-d9b4-a199-be1e4a3c0000 https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2022-06-01/ty-arti...

Sporktacular 3y ago

The fascist party has zero seats in parliament. Both the president and prime minister of Ukraine are Jewish and there was discussion about prosecuting Azov before they were wiped out in the fighting. Every country has fascists, overstating their number in Ukraine is Russian propaganda.

wahnfrieden 3y ago

the ministry of defense in ukraine posts photos on their twitter of soldiers with totenkopf centered prominently