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Yep that's sort of what I mean. Cruelty is something inflicted on the enemy and the other. Cruelty inflicted on the citizen is systematized or justified, and do

Yep that's sort of what I mean. Cruelty is something inflicted on the enemy and the other. Cruelty inflicted on the citizen is systematized or justified, and does not read as cruelty in the "view from within". And especially in the "view from the top". But most of them are very cruel, within and without.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Cruelty inflicted on the citizen is systematized or justified, and does not read as cruelty in the "view from within" Spartans, Nazis and Aztecs were proudly cruel to their own. Hyper-masculine societies have historically celebrated this as a way of culling the weak from their ranks, a necessary evil. If anything, not being an honour-bound and sacrificial culture is something of a modern phenomenon.
- dmreedy 3y ago
  You're exactly right; all I mean to say is, consider that exact point through the lens of how we cull our own weak, and the perceived necessity of it.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > consider that exact point through the lens of how we cull our own weak, and the perceived necessity of it We're comparing dividends to child sacrifice. If that doesn't encapsulate progress, I don't know what does.
    - dmreedy 3y ago
      I am comparing child sacrifice to the externalities of a dividends-driven system. We may not kill our children with knives, but we certainly let them starve.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > We may not kill our children with knives, but we certainly let them starve This is hyperbole. We have hungry kids in America, and that's a tragedy. But they're not dying en masse, and we're certainly not celebrating that as a necessary sacrifice.
        dmreedy 3y ago
        Neither were the purported child sacrifices dying en masse in Aztec civilization. We absolutely celebrate the slow death of the poor as a necessary sacrifice in the face of economic growth and dividends. Just not always in the same breath. The fittest grow and the weakest adapt, or don't. Believing that when they don't is a tragedy, is not an effective way of mitigating tragedy, and indeed can serve as an affirming and normalizing act in and of itself. "That's a tragedy, but that's the way it is"
deleted 3y ago
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JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Cruelty inflicted on the citizen is systematized or justified, and does not read as cruelty in the "view from within" Spartans, Nazis and Aztecs were proudly cruel to their own. Hyper-masculine societies have historically celebrated this as a way of culling the weak from their ranks, a necessary evil. If anything, not being an honour-bound and sacrificial culture is something of a modern phenomenon.

dmreedy 3y ago
You're exactly right; all I mean to say is, consider that exact point through the lens of how we cull our own weak, and the perceived necessity of it.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > consider that exact point through the lens of how we cull our own weak, and the perceived necessity of it We're comparing dividends to child sacrifice. If that doesn't encapsulate progress, I don't know what does.
  - dmreedy 3y ago
    I am comparing child sacrifice to the externalities of a dividends-driven system. We may not kill our children with knives, but we certainly let them starve.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > We may not kill our children with knives, but we certainly let them starve This is hyperbole. We have hungry kids in America, and that's a tragedy. But they're not dying en masse, and we're certainly not celebrating that as a necessary sacrifice.
      - dmreedy 3y ago
        Neither were the purported child sacrifices dying en masse in Aztec civilization. We absolutely celebrate the slow death of the poor as a necessary sacrifice in the face of economic growth and dividends. Just not always in the same breath. The fittest grow and the weakest adapt, or don't. Believing that when they don't is a tragedy, is not an effective way of mitigating tragedy, and indeed can serve as an affirming and normalizing act in and of itself. "That's a tragedy, but that's the way it is"

deleted 3y ago

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