5 ms·

I would also like to see some proof that piracy is a huge problem. Files being available and free for download on the 'black market' does not mean that people w

by efnx 15y ago

I would also like to see some proof that piracy is a huge problem. Files being available and free for download on the 'black market' does not mean that people who would pirate said files would otherwise pay for those files. It would be nice if someone did a scientific study...

drcube 15y ago
You're in luck: https://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-piracy-doesnt-affect-us-box-office-returns-study-finds-120210/ https://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-piracy-doesnt-affect-us-... news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3577076
- teamonkey 15y ago
  Torrentfreak is not a reliable news source by any means. It has a strong agenda and that article spun the findings of the paper.
  - drcube 15y ago
    "Our findings indicate that, as a lower bound, international box office returns in our sample were at least 7% lower than they would have been in the absence of pre-release piracy. By contrast, we do not see evidence of elevated sales displacement in US box office revenue following the adoption of BitTorrent, and we suggest that delayed legal availability of the content abroad may drive the losses to piracy." (Italics are mine) Here's a link to the actual paper: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986299 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986299
    - teamonkey 15y ago
      Did you read the paper though? "Taking this triple-difference [their metric for determining piracy rate] as a conservative estimate of the effect of piracy on box office sales, we infer that pre-release piracy causes the foreign box office returns for a movie to decrease by 1.3% for each week of lag between the U.S. release and the foreign release of the movie." ... "We estimate that movies in our data would have returned a total of nearly $3.52 billion if not for piracy, implying that piracy caused films to lose $240 million in weekend box office returns in the non-US countries in our data during 2005. Thus we estimate that weekend box office returns in our data were about 7% lower than they would have been in the absence of pre-release piracy. This estimate may be conservative if the actual losses to piracy are greater than those suggested by our tripledifference estimate or if returns in the US box office are also reduced by piracy." Also, the paper only talks about box-office sales, not even touching the DVD/Blu-ray/download market.
paulhauggis 15y ago
You really need scientific study? Just look at Napster. When something is easily available for free, the masses will choose it over paying for the exact same thing. Wouldn't you?
- efnx 15y ago
  Yes, I do need a scientific study. When Napster came out my friends and I finally had access to hard-to-find singles and b-sides that were not available anywhere else. We also still bought tons of records. I'm looking at Napster now - it feels a lot like Pandora and Spotify. I can't take an anecdotal story from a company ('the story of Napster') and treat that as hard evidence in a fact-based argument, sorry.
- drcube 15y ago
  Do you? You are demonstrably incorrect. If you were right, there would be almost zero purchases of anything available on Pirate Bay. As it is, Hollywood is raking in cash.
res0nat0r 15y ago
Does it matter if it is a problem or not, really? As long as it is against the law, well then it can be considered a problem. Until the law is changed that the music you demand should be free to everyone, anywhere, anytime, it is still a 'problem'. So you shouldn't be upset when websites that are profiting off of activities which are illegal get shutdown.
- jarek 15y ago
  I wish upon you getting pulled over for doing 56 in a 55 zone.
- pyre 15y ago
  I think the 'problem' here is that you are equating legality with morality. Should I be concerned about the 'problem' of medical marijuana clinics (e.g. in California) profiting off of a Federally illegal substance?
  - res0nat0r 15y ago
    I'm not equating this with morality whatsoever. I do find it quite humorous that somehow after the creation of easily distributable music due to the Fraunhofer Institue and high speed bandwith, that somehow music, movies, and television and the demand that they be accessable for free, or instantly available anywhere at any price you choose has become a 'moral' issue. Note the movie industry is doing perfectly fine with piracy in its current state, I don't debate that. Just look at the yearly numbers: http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/ http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/ not too bad IMO. So, seeing as how they are doing just fine in the face of all this piracy, why shouldn't they try and do as much as they can to crack down on the money they think they are losing? They are doing just fine, which means there is an obvious demand for their product, so they should be trying to stop people who are eating into their profit margin, what is wrong with that? Sure you might not agree and believe that 'the man' is evil and stealing 99 cents out of every dollar that goes to your beloved band which no one has ever heard of, but it is still their right to protect their investment. It isn't an inherent right put forth in the Constitution that states you should be entertained for free, or at whatever price you choose.

by efnx 15y ago

drcube 15y ago

You're in luck: https://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-piracy-doesnt-affect-us-box-office-returns-study-finds-120210/ https://torrentfreak.com/bittorrent-piracy-doesnt-affect-us-... news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3577076

teamonkey 15y ago
Torrentfreak is not a reliable news source by any means. It has a strong agenda and that article spun the findings of the paper.
- drcube 15y ago
  "Our findings indicate that, as a lower bound, international box office returns in our sample were at least 7% lower than they would have been in the absence of pre-release piracy. By contrast, we do not see evidence of elevated sales displacement in US box office revenue following the adoption of BitTorrent, and we suggest that delayed legal availability of the content abroad may drive the losses to piracy." (Italics are mine) Here's a link to the actual paper: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986299 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1986299
  - teamonkey 15y ago
    Did you read the paper though? "Taking this triple-difference [their metric for determining piracy rate] as a conservative estimate of the effect of piracy on box office sales, we infer that pre-release piracy causes the foreign box office returns for a movie to decrease by 1.3% for each week of lag between the U.S. release and the foreign release of the movie." ... "We estimate that movies in our data would have returned a total of nearly $3.52 billion if not for piracy, implying that piracy caused films to lose $240 million in weekend box office returns in the non-US countries in our data during 2005. Thus we estimate that weekend box office returns in our data were about 7% lower than they would have been in the absence of pre-release piracy. This estimate may be conservative if the actual losses to piracy are greater than those suggested by our tripledifference estimate or if returns in the US box office are also reduced by piracy." Also, the paper only talks about box-office sales, not even touching the DVD/Blu-ray/download market.

paulhauggis 15y ago

You really need scientific study? Just look at Napster. When something is easily available for free, the masses will choose it over paying for the exact same thing. Wouldn't you?

efnx 15y ago
Yes, I do need a scientific study. When Napster came out my friends and I finally had access to hard-to-find singles and b-sides that were not available anywhere else. We also still bought tons of records. I'm looking at Napster now - it feels a lot like Pandora and Spotify. I can't take an anecdotal story from a company ('the story of Napster') and treat that as hard evidence in a fact-based argument, sorry.
drcube 15y ago
Do you? You are demonstrably incorrect. If you were right, there would be almost zero purchases of anything available on Pirate Bay. As it is, Hollywood is raking in cash.

res0nat0r 15y ago

Does it matter if it is a problem or not, really? As long as it is against the law, well then it can be considered a problem. Until the law is changed that the music you demand should be free to everyone, anywhere, anytime, it is still a 'problem'. So you shouldn't be upset when websites that are profiting off of activities which are illegal get shutdown.

jarek 15y ago
I wish upon you getting pulled over for doing 56 in a 55 zone.
pyre 15y ago
I think the 'problem' here is that you are equating legality with morality. Should I be concerned about the 'problem' of medical marijuana clinics (e.g. in California) profiting off of a Federally illegal substance?
- res0nat0r 15y ago
  I'm not equating this with morality whatsoever. I do find it quite humorous that somehow after the creation of easily distributable music due to the Fraunhofer Institue and high speed bandwith, that somehow music, movies, and television and the demand that they be accessable for free, or instantly available anywhere at any price you choose has become a 'moral' issue. Note the movie industry is doing perfectly fine with piracy in its current state, I don't debate that. Just look at the yearly numbers: http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/ http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/ not too bad IMO. So, seeing as how they are doing just fine in the face of all this piracy, why shouldn't they try and do as much as they can to crack down on the money they think they are losing? They are doing just fine, which means there is an obvious demand for their product, so they should be trying to stop people who are eating into their profit margin, what is wrong with that? Sure you might not agree and believe that 'the man' is evil and stealing 99 cents out of every dollar that goes to your beloved band which no one has ever heard of, but it is still their right to protect their investment. It isn't an inherent right put forth in the Constitution that states you should be entertained for free, or at whatever price you choose.