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>* FL makes no pretense about being primarily a based car-culture, but successfully implements mass transit where it makes sense Effectively no FL city has mas

>* FL makes no pretense about being primarily a based car-culture, but successfully implements mass transit where it makes sense Effectively no FL city has mass transit, unless you want to count South Florida which has a commuter train (Trirail) and the Metro, which are both essentially north-south only. It makes sense to do everywhere, but has been done nowhere.

justrealist 3y ago
The Disney World monorail[1] has higher daily ridership than BART[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_Sys... [2] https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2020/news20200225 https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2020/news20200225
- taeric 3y ago
  Amusing stat, but doesn't really speak to FL builds.
  - justrealist 3y ago
    Why not? It's in Florida, and one way or another, Florida policymaking enabled mass transit where it made sense. You probably don't like that it's a private company on private land, but that's irrelevant to the question of decarbonation.
    - majormajor 3y ago
      You know there's a Disney park in California too, that has a monorail and shuttle services too? So why not compare Disney to Disney and the metros to... well...
    - taeric 3y ago
      Was it a FL public project? That Disney, famously in "battle" with the FL government right now, did something commendable says little about what FL would do.
      - justrealist 3y ago
        It say that Florida had regulations and land-use policies that allowed private enterprises to set up effective mass transit! That's a good thing that most states didn't do!
        taeric 3y ago
        Not really. Florida effectively gave a large chunk of land to Disney. This has famously been covered in recent litigation and they tried to claw it back. Such that, no, I don't think you can take Disney's situation as at all indicative of something from the Florida land-use policies. Would be akin to financial advice from a lottery winner. Unless you are saying maybe we should pursue more local governments run by a corporation? That also feels wrong, all told. Though, I would grant I don't have enough perspective there to know.
        chrisco255 3y ago
        FL didn't give land to Disney. Disney bought all of its own land via W.E.D. Enterprises and other dummy companies they used to discretely make the purchases in 1964 [2]. Later, after Walt's death in 1965, in 1967, Roy O. Disney made the case for the Reedy Creek Improvement Act [1], which gave Disney an exclusive zone in the state independent of county/city/state zoning laws, building codes, school districts, etc. Part of the pitch to getting the Reedy Creek Act passed, was the plans for E.P.C.O.T. (Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow) and the plan to build a new urban development. Those plans were complicated after Walt's death and permanently shelved after his brother Roy's retirement in 1968, but Disney retained its exemptions in spite of never truly undertaking the original plan and simply operated a tax-reduced, virtually regulation-free amusement park, until this year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_Act [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20140903204555/http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1993-05-30/news/9305280833_1_walt-disney-osceola-land-transactions https://web.archive.org/web/20140903204555/http://articles.o...
        taeric 3y ago
- cool_dude85 3y ago
  How many people daily take the ferry that runs between the entrance of Small World and the exit? By expanding the definition of "mass transit" into meaninglessness, we might find that Florida really is a leader!
  - justrealist 3y ago
    How many tourists take the subway from Chinatown to Fisherman's Wharf? None, because it doesn't exist. There's only one definition of "mass transit" that matters and it's the one you know CA can't deliver on.
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    The sad thing is, I think if Walt Disney hadn't died when he did, the monorail system would have expanded throughout the city of Orlando and probably to other parts of the state. His plans for EPCOT were originally to build an actual planned city using these technologies to manage traffic flow: https://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/overview/the-florida-project https://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/overview/the-...
- runarberg 3y ago
  The Disney world ridership numbers are from 2012, back then the daily ridership numbers for BART was well over 300,000 or more than twice that of Disney’s Monorail. Your BART number is also in the middle of the Pandemic, back then the daily ridership of the Disney’s monorail was 0, as the park was closed. Most resent number for BART is (Q4 2022) 146,500 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit I’m having difficulty finding ridership numbers for Disney’s monorail. The best I can give is 150,000 per day. https://www.tampabay.com/life-culture/2023/05/04/disney-desantis-agreements-special-district-monorail/ https://www.tampabay.com/life-culture/2023/05/04/disney-desa... which is something some legislator says while playing politics.

justrealist 3y ago

The Disney World monorail[1] has higher daily ridership than BART[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_Sys... [2] https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2020/news20200225 https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2020/news20200225

taeric 3y ago
Amusing stat, but doesn't really speak to FL builds.
- justrealist 3y ago
  Why not? It's in Florida, and one way or another, Florida policymaking enabled mass transit where it made sense. You probably don't like that it's a private company on private land, but that's irrelevant to the question of decarbonation.
  - majormajor 3y ago
    You know there's a Disney park in California too, that has a monorail and shuttle services too? So why not compare Disney to Disney and the metros to... well...
  - taeric 3y ago
    Was it a FL public project? That Disney, famously in "battle" with the FL government right now, did something commendable says little about what FL would do.
    - justrealist 3y ago
      It say that Florida had regulations and land-use policies that allowed private enterprises to set up effective mass transit! That's a good thing that most states didn't do!
      - taeric 3y ago
        Not really. Florida effectively gave a large chunk of land to Disney. This has famously been covered in recent litigation and they tried to claw it back. Such that, no, I don't think you can take Disney's situation as at all indicative of something from the Florida land-use policies. Would be akin to financial advice from a lottery winner. Unless you are saying maybe we should pursue more local governments run by a corporation? That also feels wrong, all told. Though, I would grant I don't have enough perspective there to know.
        chrisco255 3y ago
        FL didn't give land to Disney. Disney bought all of its own land via W.E.D. Enterprises and other dummy companies they used to discretely make the purchases in 1964 [2]. Later, after Walt's death in 1965, in 1967, Roy O. Disney made the case for the Reedy Creek Improvement Act [1], which gave Disney an exclusive zone in the state independent of county/city/state zoning laws, building codes, school districts, etc. Part of the pitch to getting the Reedy Creek Act passed, was the plans for E.P.C.O.T. (Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow) and the plan to build a new urban development. Those plans were complicated after Walt's death and permanently shelved after his brother Roy's retirement in 1968, but Disney retained its exemptions in spite of never truly undertaking the original plan and simply operated a tax-reduced, virtually regulation-free amusement park, until this year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_Act [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20140903204555/http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1993-05-30/news/9305280833_1_walt-disney-osceola-land-transactions https://web.archive.org/web/20140903204555/http://articles.o...
        taeric 3y ago
cool_dude85 3y ago
How many people daily take the ferry that runs between the entrance of Small World and the exit? By expanding the definition of "mass transit" into meaninglessness, we might find that Florida really is a leader!
- justrealist 3y ago
  How many tourists take the subway from Chinatown to Fisherman's Wharf? None, because it doesn't exist. There's only one definition of "mass transit" that matters and it's the one you know CA can't deliver on.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  The sad thing is, I think if Walt Disney hadn't died when he did, the monorail system would have expanded throughout the city of Orlando and probably to other parts of the state. His plans for EPCOT were originally to build an actual planned city using these technologies to manage traffic flow: https://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/overview/the-florida-project https://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/overview/the-...
runarberg 3y ago
The Disney world ridership numbers are from 2012, back then the daily ridership numbers for BART was well over 300,000 or more than twice that of Disney’s Monorail. Your BART number is also in the middle of the Pandemic, back then the daily ridership of the Disney’s monorail was 0, as the park was closed. Most resent number for BART is (Q4 2022) 146,500 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit I’m having difficulty finding ridership numbers for Disney’s monorail. The best I can give is 150,000 per day. https://www.tampabay.com/life-culture/2023/05/04/disney-desantis-agreements-special-district-monorail/ https://www.tampabay.com/life-culture/2023/05/04/disney-desa... which is something some legislator says while playing politics.