4 ms·

I had this same question for my Tesla when I first got it, but I came to the conclusion charging was just a chemical process that alters the state of things. St

I had this same question for my Tesla when I first got it, but I came to the conclusion charging was just a chemical process that alters the state of things. Still don't know the actual answer.

greesil 3y ago
Yeah there is a mass change here, E=mc^2. It's not a lot of mass for your Tesla.
- gpm 3y ago
  "not a lot" - the internet tells me a few micrograms https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/emc2 https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/emc2. Re GP: It's a closed system, with a constant number of neutrons, protons, and electrons (electrons flow in and out, but protons don't, so the number of electrons has to stay the same). The mass being added and removed is the mass created and destroyed when you destroy/create a chemical bond. Bonds store energy, and that energy is converted to mass following e=mc^2.
  - nayuki 3y ago
    The claim that bonds store energy is a frequent misconception. Bonds are the result of lost energy compared to free, unbound atoms. If bonds don't store energy, how does breaking hydrocarbon bonds release energy? It doesn't - it's just that the new bonds formed in CO2 and H2O release more energy than it took to break the hydrocarbon bonds.
    - hgsgm 3y ago
      It's a distinction without a difference. Energy is not not a substance. Is a meaure of an entire configuration of states. Forms of energy is an "interpretation", a metpahor. C02 + H20 has less energy than CH3 + O2, because C02 + H20 are more stable (= lower energy) bonds. You can say the energy is in the electron, released as it falls into a lower energy state (bond). If I walk up a hill to a cliff, am I then in a more energetic state? No, because it takes energy to push me off the cliff, the ground is a more stable position than the top of the ledge and the appparent energy released by me turning a windmill I hit on the way down is because more energy is released by freefalling off a cliff than by sitting down on top of the ledge? or Yes, for exactly the same reason?
jaclaz 3y ago
I guess it depends on the type of battery, with ol' lead batteries you used density meters (hydrometers) to measure charge level, and to more dense liquid corresponded higher level of charge.
- gpm 3y ago
  What's happening there is sulphur and oxygen is moving out of solution onto the solid lead plates. The mass of the liquid changes, the mass of the battery as a whole stays the same (apart from e=mc^2 as mentioned in a sibling of your comment).
  - jaclaz 3y ago
    Sure, just having a little fun on the topic that I don't think is to be taken seriously.

I had this same question for my Tesla when I first got it, but I came to the conclusion charging was just a chemical process that alters the state of things. Still don't know the actual answer.

greesil 3y ago

Yeah there is a mass change here, E=mc^2. It's not a lot of mass for your Tesla.

gpm 3y ago
"not a lot" - the internet tells me a few micrograms https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/emc2 https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/emc2. Re GP: It's a closed system, with a constant number of neutrons, protons, and electrons (electrons flow in and out, but protons don't, so the number of electrons has to stay the same). The mass being added and removed is the mass created and destroyed when you destroy/create a chemical bond. Bonds store energy, and that energy is converted to mass following e=mc^2.
- nayuki 3y ago
  The claim that bonds store energy is a frequent misconception. Bonds are the result of lost energy compared to free, unbound atoms. If bonds don't store energy, how does breaking hydrocarbon bonds release energy? It doesn't - it's just that the new bonds formed in CO2 and H2O release more energy than it took to break the hydrocarbon bonds.
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    It's a distinction without a difference. Energy is not not a substance. Is a meaure of an entire configuration of states. Forms of energy is an "interpretation", a metpahor. C02 + H20 has less energy than CH3 + O2, because C02 + H20 are more stable (= lower energy) bonds. You can say the energy is in the electron, released as it falls into a lower energy state (bond). If I walk up a hill to a cliff, am I then in a more energetic state? No, because it takes energy to push me off the cliff, the ground is a more stable position than the top of the ledge and the appparent energy released by me turning a windmill I hit on the way down is because more energy is released by freefalling off a cliff than by sitting down on top of the ledge? or Yes, for exactly the same reason?

jaclaz 3y ago

I guess it depends on the type of battery, with ol' lead batteries you used density meters (hydrometers) to measure charge level, and to more dense liquid corresponded higher level of charge.

gpm 3y ago
What's happening there is sulphur and oxygen is moving out of solution onto the solid lead plates. The mass of the liquid changes, the mass of the battery as a whole stays the same (apart from e=mc^2 as mentioned in a sibling of your comment).
- jaclaz 3y ago
  Sure, just having a little fun on the topic that I don't think is to be taken seriously.