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>It is hard, though, to build and maintain the structures of the old, “smaller” internet. You can, today, still go back to the can-to-can structure that a perso

by jasode 3y ago

>It is hard, though, to build and maintain the structures of the old, “smaller” internet. You can, today, still go back to the can-to-can structure that a personal website, an RSS feed, and a browser provide. I think the author ignores another reason that people (especially us techies) don't like to admit: The majority of people don't care about following a list of personal websites. Instead, websurfers just get whatever snippets of information they want (e.g. food recipe, medical trivia) from whatever website happens to have it and then move on. The disinterest in personal websites comes from both the websurfers and many content authors themselves. Some examples from the content creators... Clay Shirky's essay "A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy" happens to be on the HN front page right now. But he doesn't maintain his personal website anymore. He gave reasons for it[1] and even said he regrets letting it rot. But even today, his personal website remains empty and previous links all return 404 errors. But he does stay active on Twitter: https://twitter.com/cshirky https://twitter.com/cshirky John Carmack's old personal website "altdevblogaday.com" is gone now.[2] But he does stay active on Twitter: https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack Those 2 guys are obviously internet-savvy and need no lectures on personal websites -- and yet they chose to abandon them. As to examples for websurfers, if you ask normal people if they sometimes search the internet for a cooking recipe, they'll say "yes". But if then followup with "Can you name a cooking website you got a recipe from?", most will say "no". The average websurfer cared more about the recipe and not the particular website. Sure, some will make a mental note of the domain url and maybe even bookmark it but many won't. The lack of interest for following "little websites" continues to be reinforced with tools like ChatGPT. Most people would rather get some synthesized information instead of visiting a bunch of different websites they don't care about. I think this past comment about RSS not being relevant to regular people is uncomfortable for some to read: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2060707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2060707 I bought this internet yellow pages book in 1995 when the consumer-accessible internet was new: https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Internet+Yellow+Pages+1st+ed&source=lnms&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Internet+Yellow+Pages+1s... That book represents a different time when indie websites were a purposeful destination to visit. I notice that a lot of people don't bother doing that anymore. Me included. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31041194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31041194 [2] requires Wayback Machine: http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/26/functional-programming-in-c/ http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/26/functional-programm...

chrbutler 3y ago
Great points. I think you're absolutely right – social media in particular has given most people good reason to (a) not maintain a personal website and (b) not follow other personal websites. Ultimately, I'm not sure that's a good thing, but that isn't to say that it doesn't present some signficant benefits, like the ability to follow topics, follow a much greater number of people, increase the speed of conversation, etc. Thanks for reading!
uneekname 3y ago
You keep mentioning "websurfers," "the majority of people," the comment you linked describes "real people." Indeed, most people on the internet are not going to start their own blogs tomorrow and fill out their RSS readers with dozens of hand-picked blogs. The content creators you list may have changed how they publish their content to reach a different/larger audience, and that's totally fine. It's a good thing that there are different groups of people who spend time in different corners of the internet. If you want to make a big splash, of course you won't (just) use the tools of the small internet. There may be some people who want the "small internet" to make some sort of grand comeback. But I think most of the people interested in it are looking to build out a more intimate community of people who want to do the same. And that dream is already being realized for many. With an internet this large, even this niche can be a large group of people.
- chrbutler 3y ago
  Yes, I love that – and it was a point I landed on, too. That any meaningful sub-group on the internet is going to be really really big because the whole of the internet, as far as people go, is really really really big.
ghaff 3y ago
I've certainly gone through phases of posting content of various types on various sites over time. I'll probably get back to posting on my own sites a bit more as one of my main channels went away. But it is easy to let dropping some comments on social media take the place of writing even a short blog post--and that's even assuming you have a blog all set up and everything. >But he does stay active on Twitter: https://twitter.com/cshirky https://twitter.com/cshirky Sort of. He hasn't posted anything since last year. [ADDED: I'm wrong. Pinned tweet threw me off.]

by jasode 3y ago

chrbutler 3y ago

Great points. I think you're absolutely right – social media in particular has given most people good reason to (a) not maintain a personal website and (b) not follow other personal websites. Ultimately, I'm not sure that's a good thing, but that isn't to say that it doesn't present some signficant benefits, like the ability to follow topics, follow a much greater number of people, increase the speed of conversation, etc. Thanks for reading!

uneekname 3y ago

You keep mentioning "websurfers," "the majority of people," the comment you linked describes "real people." Indeed, most people on the internet are not going to start their own blogs tomorrow and fill out their RSS readers with dozens of hand-picked blogs. The content creators you list may have changed how they publish their content to reach a different/larger audience, and that's totally fine. It's a good thing that there are different groups of people who spend time in different corners of the internet. If you want to make a big splash, of course you won't (just) use the tools of the small internet. There may be some people who want the "small internet" to make some sort of grand comeback. But I think most of the people interested in it are looking to build out a more intimate community of people who want to do the same. And that dream is already being realized for many. With an internet this large, even this niche can be a large group of people.

chrbutler 3y ago
Yes, I love that – and it was a point I landed on, too. That any meaningful sub-group on the internet is going to be really really big because the whole of the internet, as far as people go, is really really really big.

ghaff 3y ago

I've certainly gone through phases of posting content of various types on various sites over time. I'll probably get back to posting on my own sites a bit more as one of my main channels went away. But it is easy to let dropping some comments on social media take the place of writing even a short blog post--and that's even assuming you have a blog all set up and everything. >But he does stay active on Twitter: https://twitter.com/cshirky https://twitter.com/cshirky Sort of. He hasn't posted anything since last year. [ADDED: I'm wrong. Pinned tweet threw me off.]