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If Chile aligns with us that would be great. You do know that if the CCP take defacto control there, they would control the system much more than you think the

If Chile aligns with us that would be great. You do know that if the CCP take defacto control there, they would control the system much more than you think the big bad Americans do. Look at the surveillance apparatus they help deploy in their "aligned" countries. It's never level stuff. The US isn't perfect but its the best option towards a "rules based" order of the world.

tehjoker 3y ago
Well (1) I'm a socialist so I just disagree. (2) Why do people forget the Snowden leaks? We have the most sophisticated and globally pervasive system of hacking and surveillance ever devised. (3) The world is asking for a "UN Based Order." A "rules based order" as described in US foreign policy journals just means "our rules, and we don't have to follow them."
- randomopining 3y ago
  Where are the in-depth leaks from China and Russia? Are you naive enough to think that the CCP doesn't have a massive and complex surveillance apparatus? Do you expect the US to tie its hands behind its back when competing against the CCP? All this kind of talk is from a position of not understanding or not accepting the reality of what's at stake. These countries are autocratic and they want control of the world. The US with all its faults is the better path forward.
  - tehjoker 3y ago
    It's widely known that we're leagues ahead in cyber capability, just like the rest of (most of) our military technology. To pretend otherwise is sophomoric. I'm sorry, I just don't agree with what you are saying. This discounts the economic and imperial interventions the US has made around the world. By contrast, China has not done any of that and Russia didn't until very recently, but even the Ukraine situation is more defensible in a sense than running halfway around the world to fuck with Iraq for lulz.
    - randomopining 3y ago
      It's not "widely known" since that's not even true. China and Russia are very advanced these days. Even ahead in many regards, according to public information. Russia (aka the Soviet Union) has done plenty of interventions since the start of the Cold War. Thinking that Ukraine compares to Iraq is simply incorrect. I didn't support the Iraq War, but as you can see today -- the US's end state there was not control over the country, gov, or people. That's verifyable. Russia has verifiably ANNEXED land and people, and its public goal is to destroy the democratically elected gov of Ukraine. Even in that regard, Saddam was a dictator. It's actually pathetic to compare Russia in Ukraine to Iraq. I don't think even 1 Ukranian would agree with you.
      - tehjoker 3y ago
        I think the people of Fallujah (still poisoned with depleted uranium) and the torture victims of Abu Garib would beg to differ with you.
        randomopining 3y ago
        When did I say the US has taken 100% perfect actions? Also Abu Ghraib wasn't anything close to a high level decision. The fact that if you ask probably >85% of voting Americans if the Iraq War was a good decision -- they would say no. And they vote with that moving forward. It's an imperfect system that is still the best available. Yet you bring forth these US atrocities in war, while Saddam himself killed 10's of thousands of innocents with gas etc. Directed from the top. That's the kind of stuff that would happen in a power vacuum where your autocrats take control.
mandmandam 3y ago
> The US isn't perfect but its the best option towards a "rules based" order of the world. The world heartily disagrees. The US has been seen as not just "not the best", but the biggest threat to global peace, stability, and democracy. For about 20 years now. This isn't the place for ideological flame wars, so please take the above as an invitation to learn how America is actually viewed by the rest of the planet.
- randomopining 3y ago
  Amazing how you can speak for 8 billion people! I know it's edgy to sit in a relatively safe country in the world and espouse about how bad the US is... but if you were to actually look at the facts of the past 70 years of general US hegemony (nearly 30 of true hegemony) -- most of the indicators are showing the longest periods of peace, economic growth, and lifespans in most of the world. Look at the other 2 candidates -- Russia and China Russia: invaded and annexed part of their neighbor. Brutal destruction of Chechnya. Support of NK with technology. China: autocratic communist cabal. Essentially took Hong Kong by force. Threatening to invade and annex Taiwan by force. The argument is clear, and it's also clear that your edgy "US bad!" stance is sophomoric at best.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    I'm talking about two decades of global polls, not my own opinion.
    - randomopining 3y ago
      Well I don't think "global polls" really give much nuance to the discussion like I just tried to do
obeid 3y ago
lol
- randomopining 3y ago
  lol im on the money. i know its edgy to hate the US

tehjoker 3y ago

Well (1) I'm a socialist so I just disagree. (2) Why do people forget the Snowden leaks? We have the most sophisticated and globally pervasive system of hacking and surveillance ever devised. (3) The world is asking for a "UN Based Order." A "rules based order" as described in US foreign policy journals just means "our rules, and we don't have to follow them."

randomopining 3y ago
Where are the in-depth leaks from China and Russia? Are you naive enough to think that the CCP doesn't have a massive and complex surveillance apparatus? Do you expect the US to tie its hands behind its back when competing against the CCP? All this kind of talk is from a position of not understanding or not accepting the reality of what's at stake. These countries are autocratic and they want control of the world. The US with all its faults is the better path forward.
- tehjoker 3y ago
  It's widely known that we're leagues ahead in cyber capability, just like the rest of (most of) our military technology. To pretend otherwise is sophomoric. I'm sorry, I just don't agree with what you are saying. This discounts the economic and imperial interventions the US has made around the world. By contrast, China has not done any of that and Russia didn't until very recently, but even the Ukraine situation is more defensible in a sense than running halfway around the world to fuck with Iraq for lulz.
  - randomopining 3y ago
    It's not "widely known" since that's not even true. China and Russia are very advanced these days. Even ahead in many regards, according to public information. Russia (aka the Soviet Union) has done plenty of interventions since the start of the Cold War. Thinking that Ukraine compares to Iraq is simply incorrect. I didn't support the Iraq War, but as you can see today -- the US's end state there was not control over the country, gov, or people. That's verifyable. Russia has verifiably ANNEXED land and people, and its public goal is to destroy the democratically elected gov of Ukraine. Even in that regard, Saddam was a dictator. It's actually pathetic to compare Russia in Ukraine to Iraq. I don't think even 1 Ukranian would agree with you.
    - tehjoker 3y ago
      I think the people of Fallujah (still poisoned with depleted uranium) and the torture victims of Abu Garib would beg to differ with you.
      - randomopining 3y ago
        When did I say the US has taken 100% perfect actions? Also Abu Ghraib wasn't anything close to a high level decision. The fact that if you ask probably >85% of voting Americans if the Iraq War was a good decision -- they would say no. And they vote with that moving forward. It's an imperfect system that is still the best available. Yet you bring forth these US atrocities in war, while Saddam himself killed 10's of thousands of innocents with gas etc. Directed from the top. That's the kind of stuff that would happen in a power vacuum where your autocrats take control.

mandmandam 3y ago

> The US isn't perfect but its the best option towards a "rules based" order of the world. The world heartily disagrees. The US has been seen as not just "not the best", but the biggest threat to global peace, stability, and democracy. For about 20 years now. This isn't the place for ideological flame wars, so please take the above as an invitation to learn how America is actually viewed by the rest of the planet.

randomopining 3y ago
Amazing how you can speak for 8 billion people! I know it's edgy to sit in a relatively safe country in the world and espouse about how bad the US is... but if you were to actually look at the facts of the past 70 years of general US hegemony (nearly 30 of true hegemony) -- most of the indicators are showing the longest periods of peace, economic growth, and lifespans in most of the world. Look at the other 2 candidates -- Russia and China Russia: invaded and annexed part of their neighbor. Brutal destruction of Chechnya. Support of NK with technology. China: autocratic communist cabal. Essentially took Hong Kong by force. Threatening to invade and annex Taiwan by force. The argument is clear, and it's also clear that your edgy "US bad!" stance is sophomoric at best.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  I'm talking about two decades of global polls, not my own opinion.
  - randomopining 3y ago
    Well I don't think "global polls" really give much nuance to the discussion like I just tried to do

obeid 3y ago

lol

randomopining 3y ago
lol im on the money. i know its edgy to hate the US