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"SQM's contract is set to expire in 2030 and Albemarle's in 2043." Worth noting! badtake/This looks like the national electricity model in Quebec, where the p

by dmbche 3y ago

"SQM's contract is set to expire in 2030 and Albemarle's in 2043." Worth noting! badtake/This looks like the national electricity model in Quebec, where the public absorbs risk and the private part of the private-public partnership absorbs profits. Just the best!/badtake Edit: looks like this is an outdated take - please diregard

nordsieck 3y ago
Well, since these will mostly be foreign companies partnering with the government, I imagine that it'll be a little closer to the Chinese model, but maybe with a bit less IP theft.
icegreentea2 3y ago
What's the private part of the Quebec model?
- dmbche 3y ago
  Hydro quebec is the national energy "company", which is nationalised, but they give contracts to other companies to run parts of their operations - this happenes through multiple deals by one of our past prime minister. At this point, Hydro-Quebec is only directly responsible for a portion of the hydro we create, while it has let natural gas, wind turbines and possibly more to private companies. Edit: refer to my other comments, this is a bad take, hydro is not privately owned It's hard to research even for a french speaker though - I think I might reasearch and write something on it just to clarify my own opinions
  - northernskys30 3y ago
    Hydro quebec pays a yearly dividend to its sole shareholder, the government of Quebec. For 2022 : "In light of these results, Hydro-Québec will be able to pay a dividend of $3,418 million to the Québec government, its sole shareholder—the largest in its history." Source : https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/annual-report-2022-hydro-quebec.pdf?v=20230221 https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/annua...
cmonagle 3y ago
> This looks like the national electricity model in Quebec, where the public absorbs risk and the private part of the private-public partnership absorbs profits. Just the best! I'm not super sure what you're referring to, Hydro Quebec's (often significant) profits are returned as dividends to the government. This year was $3.4 billion[0], and while I'm sure they have private contractors, but I can't imagine they're raking in anywhere near that. 0. https://globalnews.ca/news/9503363/hydro-quebec-record-financial-results-2022/ https://globalnews.ca/news/9503363/hydro-quebec-record-finan...
- dmbche 3y ago
  I'll have to look into it - it seems a little odd that we keep raising electricity costs if we are racking in more profits than ever. This is an old opinion that I haven't revisited in a couple years, thanks for the link
  - retrac 3y ago
    HQ sells it, basically, at-cost locally. The cost does go up, inflation and all that. The remainder that is exported above-cost is just profit for HQ, which is turned into further expansion and returns to the provincial budget. There are good economic reasons to not go further and start outright subsidizing the cost of electricity. it would just turn those export profits - which could be spent on anything - into things that use electricity locally, which is less general and exchangeable.
    - dmbche 3y ago
      Thanks - just read a couple articles, and price increases at this time are because we are overproducing electricity until some contracts take effect with the US - I'm seeing that all the comments about it being a private-public partnership had to do with gas exploitation rights being sold to extranational companies. The company is publicly owned - I was totally wrong and am very proud of HQ now! Especially their work in battery research!
      - deleted 3y ago

by dmbche 3y ago

nordsieck 3y ago

Well, since these will mostly be foreign companies partnering with the government, I imagine that it'll be a little closer to the Chinese model, but maybe with a bit less IP theft.

icegreentea2 3y ago

What's the private part of the Quebec model?

dmbche 3y ago
Hydro quebec is the national energy "company", which is nationalised, but they give contracts to other companies to run parts of their operations - this happenes through multiple deals by one of our past prime minister. At this point, Hydro-Quebec is only directly responsible for a portion of the hydro we create, while it has let natural gas, wind turbines and possibly more to private companies. Edit: refer to my other comments, this is a bad take, hydro is not privately owned It's hard to research even for a french speaker though - I think I might reasearch and write something on it just to clarify my own opinions
- northernskys30 3y ago
  Hydro quebec pays a yearly dividend to its sole shareholder, the government of Quebec. For 2022 : "In light of these results, Hydro-Québec will be able to pay a dividend of $3,418 million to the Québec government, its sole shareholder—the largest in its history." Source : https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/annual-report-2022-hydro-quebec.pdf?v=20230221 https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/annua...

cmonagle 3y ago

> This looks like the national electricity model in Quebec, where the public absorbs risk and the private part of the private-public partnership absorbs profits. Just the best! I'm not super sure what you're referring to, Hydro Quebec's (often significant) profits are returned as dividends to the government. This year was $3.4 billion[0], and while I'm sure they have private contractors, but I can't imagine they're raking in anywhere near that. 0. https://globalnews.ca/news/9503363/hydro-quebec-record-financial-results-2022/ https://globalnews.ca/news/9503363/hydro-quebec-record-finan...

dmbche 3y ago
I'll have to look into it - it seems a little odd that we keep raising electricity costs if we are racking in more profits than ever. This is an old opinion that I haven't revisited in a couple years, thanks for the link
- retrac 3y ago
  HQ sells it, basically, at-cost locally. The cost does go up, inflation and all that. The remainder that is exported above-cost is just profit for HQ, which is turned into further expansion and returns to the provincial budget. There are good economic reasons to not go further and start outright subsidizing the cost of electricity. it would just turn those export profits - which could be spent on anything - into things that use electricity locally, which is less general and exchangeable.
  - dmbche 3y ago
    Thanks - just read a couple articles, and price increases at this time are because we are overproducing electricity until some contracts take effect with the US - I'm seeing that all the comments about it being a private-public partnership had to do with gas exploitation rights being sold to extranational companies. The company is publicly owned - I was totally wrong and am very proud of HQ now! Especially their work in battery research!
    - deleted 3y ago