5 ms·

Poll finds the public doesn't favor affirmative action

25 points by hui-zheng 3y ago

drekipus 3y ago
Obviously they still haven't learnt how to not be racist or sexist. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
- mattsan 3y ago
  No universities in the UK look at these things, the only thing they look at is if you've been part of programs that look at socioeconomic factors (e.g. if you're the first in your family to go to university, parents salary, you live in an area where people don't go through further education, etc.). I've always found the US admission considerations crazy, like them caring about "legacy" (unthinkable in the UK) or them requiring you to write crazy essays (all I had to write was ONE relatively short personal statement which was mostly academic interest). I believe that instead of looking at race and sex, US universities should do the same as the UK and instead look at socioeconomic factors as a whole.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    I have to assume the person you're replying to was being sarcastic. I think it is obvious to most people that your race and gender should not be a factor in admissions in the modern era, because as you said the real limiting factor in a person's opportunities and potential are socioeconomic factors, not racism and sexism.
joemazerino 3y ago
Not surprised here.
firstlink 3y ago
Just wait until they learn which way SCOTUS rules; then we will learn that actually 95% of the public are staunch supporters of affirmative action who are absolutely horrified that the fascist court could be so racist.
Clubber 3y ago
The title is pretty misleading. "Pew asked, 'Here are some factors colleges and universities may consider when making decisions about student admissions. Do you think each of the following should be a major factor, minor factor, or not a factor in college admissions?'" - Respondents most supported the use of high school grades, with 61 percent saying they should be a major factor and 32 percent a minor factor. - Scores on standardized tests were second. Thirty-nine percent said they should be a major factor, down from 47 percent three years ago. The rest, under 20% included: Community service, First in family to go to college, Athletic ability, Race or ethnicity, Whether a relative attended the college, Gender. They authors concluded that these results means the 74% of the US doesn't support affirmative action? That's an absurd conclusion. Think of it this way, "Should you consider race when hiring for a job?" Yes: you're a racist because you want to hire white people. No: you're a racist because you don't support affirmative action.
- radford-neal 3y ago
  The article says that 74% think that "Race or ethnicity" "Shouldn’t Be Considered" in college admissions. This implies that at least 74% don't support "affirmative action", which must be based on considering race or ethnicity. Actually, if the poll results are to be believed, opposition to affirmative action must be higher than 74%, since presumably some of the 26% who want to take race or ethnicity into consideration are white supremacists who want to exclude blacks. So your comment is baffling. Best I can do to make sense of it is that you think a lot of people who support affirmative action lied when responding to the question?
  - welshwelsh 3y ago
    Unfortunately the framing matters a lot, and people are not logically consistent in their preferences. The only way to know if people support affirmative action is to ask them "do you support affirmative action?" This reminds me of when Andrew Yang's campaign found that Americans are much more supportive of universal basic income proposals if you call it a "Freedom Dividend" instead of UBI. I imagine whether the proposal comes from a Republican or a Democrat also would have a big impact. What you can't do is try to determine if someone supports a policy in the abstract and then assume that they must have the same attitude towards a real implementation of that policy.
PeterStuer 3y ago
I'm always confused as I thought taking race or gender into account was not just racist or sexist, but also against the law
- lockhouse 3y ago
  There are many people who honestly believe that it's not racism or sexism if it is directed at white people or men.

25 points by hui-zheng 3y ago

drekipus 3y ago

Obviously they still haven't learnt how to not be racist or sexist. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

mattsan 3y ago
No universities in the UK look at these things, the only thing they look at is if you've been part of programs that look at socioeconomic factors (e.g. if you're the first in your family to go to university, parents salary, you live in an area where people don't go through further education, etc.). I've always found the US admission considerations crazy, like them caring about "legacy" (unthinkable in the UK) or them requiring you to write crazy essays (all I had to write was ONE relatively short personal statement which was mostly academic interest). I believe that instead of looking at race and sex, US universities should do the same as the UK and instead look at socioeconomic factors as a whole.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  I have to assume the person you're replying to was being sarcastic. I think it is obvious to most people that your race and gender should not be a factor in admissions in the modern era, because as you said the real limiting factor in a person's opportunities and potential are socioeconomic factors, not racism and sexism.

joemazerino 3y ago

Not surprised here.

firstlink 3y ago

Just wait until they learn which way SCOTUS rules; then we will learn that actually 95% of the public are staunch supporters of affirmative action who are absolutely horrified that the fascist court could be so racist.

Clubber 3y ago

The title is pretty misleading. "Pew asked, 'Here are some factors colleges and universities may consider when making decisions about student admissions. Do you think each of the following should be a major factor, minor factor, or not a factor in college admissions?'" - Respondents most supported the use of high school grades, with 61 percent saying they should be a major factor and 32 percent a minor factor. - Scores on standardized tests were second. Thirty-nine percent said they should be a major factor, down from 47 percent three years ago. The rest, under 20% included: Community service, First in family to go to college, Athletic ability, Race or ethnicity, Whether a relative attended the college, Gender. They authors concluded that these results means the 74% of the US doesn't support affirmative action? That's an absurd conclusion. Think of it this way, "Should you consider race when hiring for a job?" Yes: you're a racist because you want to hire white people. No: you're a racist because you don't support affirmative action.

radford-neal 3y ago
The article says that 74% think that "Race or ethnicity" "Shouldn’t Be Considered" in college admissions. This implies that at least 74% don't support "affirmative action", which must be based on considering race or ethnicity. Actually, if the poll results are to be believed, opposition to affirmative action must be higher than 74%, since presumably some of the 26% who want to take race or ethnicity into consideration are white supremacists who want to exclude blacks. So your comment is baffling. Best I can do to make sense of it is that you think a lot of people who support affirmative action lied when responding to the question?
- welshwelsh 3y ago
  Unfortunately the framing matters a lot, and people are not logically consistent in their preferences. The only way to know if people support affirmative action is to ask them "do you support affirmative action?" This reminds me of when Andrew Yang's campaign found that Americans are much more supportive of universal basic income proposals if you call it a "Freedom Dividend" instead of UBI. I imagine whether the proposal comes from a Republican or a Democrat also would have a big impact. What you can't do is try to determine if someone supports a policy in the abstract and then assume that they must have the same attitude towards a real implementation of that policy.

PeterStuer 3y ago

I'm always confused as I thought taking race or gender into account was not just racist or sexist, but also against the law

lockhouse 3y ago
There are many people who honestly believe that it's not racism or sexism if it is directed at white people or men.