4 ms·

To be fair, the fact that I worked in game development for a while makes the typical rasterization inaccuracies stick out like a sore thumb to me. Kind of like

To be fair, the fact that I worked in game development for a while makes the typical rasterization inaccuracies stick out like a sore thumb to me. Kind of like once you see it, you can't unsee it. And there's also a bit of knowing where to look at, what kind of scenes and weather types benefit the most, and so on. If you have someone point out the differences, on specific scenes, even the most casual observer will notice the huge improvements[1]. However if you boot up a random scene, it may look very similar. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-ORt8313Og https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-ORt8313Og

d_tr 3y ago
Screen space reflections that are clipped depending on what is directly visible are at the top of my "hard to unsee" list.
- tormeh 3y ago
  I wonder why there's no option to render a bit outside the screen just to make these artifacts disappear. Cheaper than RT, and would provide for me the most noticeable improvement of RT
  - c-hendricks 3y ago
    Works for this one specific case of when screen space reflections fall short. IMO fishing rods / planes make for much more distracting visual issues.
    - d_tr 3y ago
      > IMO fishing rods / planes make for much more distracting visual issues. What exactly are you referring to? I searched for it and all I got was stuff about actual fishing rods and some Minecraft and WoW guides...
      - c-hendricks 3y ago
        Sorry, just seeing this now Try to picture you flying a plane in a game. You're over a lake and your plane is occluding a mountain in the distance. With SSR, those bits of the mountain your plane is blocking won't be rendered in the reflection. Same with a fishing rod. They're tall and block a lot of things in the distance, thus breaking SSR. Pay attention to the reflection in the water here when Sonic casts the rod (time-stamped): https://youtube.com/watch?v=IaPMkpDOFng&t=42s https://youtube.com/watch?v=IaPMkpDOFng&t=42s Since it doesn't make sense to have a hole in a reflection when there's not actually a hole in the object, the reflection just stops when something occludes the object being reflected.
  - redox99 3y ago
    I guess if you do that you're not too far from planar reflections in terms of cost, which would be better as well since they don't suffer from occlusion artifacts.
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
Please tell me Cyberpunk lets you disable or at least turn down the bloom. In some scenes, the bloom just removes all detail and makes parts of the scene look like a blurry mess.
- filoleg 3y ago
  Yes, bloom and motion blur are disablable in settings.
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    Motion blur is fine when done right. Fortnite, for example, does it right. I remember watching a character dance and thinking "This is so god damn smooth, why does it look so smooth?" and then I noticed the motion blur. When done right, it's subtle and you don't even notice it unless you're looking for it.
    - byyyy 3y ago
      Motion blur is an accurate rendition of how humans see things. Your eyes are not fast enough to take instantaneous pictures of fast moving objects. Instead when an object moves fast on an interval too fast for us to perceive we see everything that object did on that interval in the form of a "motion blur" Games that render frames don't actually replicate this because the object is rendered on discreet instances. Thus your eye is not able to properly capture the "motion blur" from a set of stop motion images. To fix this, games must use artificial motion blur to replicate what the eyes see. Disabling motion blur is a mistake it is required for fidelity. The problem with motion blur is if it's done for objects moving too slowly. Then it becomes noticeable because if your eyes are fast enough to capture the object without blur then adding blur becomes noticeable.
      - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
        I think it's three things: 1. Blur on slow objects, as you mentioned. Something moving 5 pixels per frame probably shouldn't have any blur applied. 2. Blur exceeding the distance moved per frame. If an object moves 20 pixels between frames, the blur should be less than 20 pixels wide. Ideally, I'd even argue that the blur width should be half the movement between frames. The example above of something moving only 5 pixels per frame probably shouldn't have any blur applied. 3. Blur on objects that are not moving relative to the camera. In a racing game being played with the camera above and behind the car, yes, the scenery should be blurred, but your car and the car right next to you that is driving the same speed as you should not be blurred. Though I suppose this is really just a special/specific case of problem 2 mentioned above. Of course, there's one problem with all of this: the video game camera is supposed to represent your eyes staring strictly in one direction. When your eyes follow an object, the object does not blur, but everything else you see does. This means that if you're tracking an object on your screen with your eyes, that object should not be blurred. Unfortunately, this is not possible for games to do, because they don't know where your gaze is actually directed. Finally, I can't close out this comment without mentioning the greatest offender when it comes to doing motion blur wrong: simply blending each frame with the previous one. There was an N64 game that did this, and my god it's horrible.
fbdab103 3y ago
At minimum, everything becomes significantly darker. Without a total redesign of set lighting with ray tracing in mind, it looks like a lot of areas would be barely playable.

d_tr 3y ago

Screen space reflections that are clipped depending on what is directly visible are at the top of my "hard to unsee" list.

tormeh 3y ago
I wonder why there's no option to render a bit outside the screen just to make these artifacts disappear. Cheaper than RT, and would provide for me the most noticeable improvement of RT
- c-hendricks 3y ago
  Works for this one specific case of when screen space reflections fall short. IMO fishing rods / planes make for much more distracting visual issues.
  - d_tr 3y ago
    > IMO fishing rods / planes make for much more distracting visual issues. What exactly are you referring to? I searched for it and all I got was stuff about actual fishing rods and some Minecraft and WoW guides...
    - c-hendricks 3y ago
      Sorry, just seeing this now Try to picture you flying a plane in a game. You're over a lake and your plane is occluding a mountain in the distance. With SSR, those bits of the mountain your plane is blocking won't be rendered in the reflection. Same with a fishing rod. They're tall and block a lot of things in the distance, thus breaking SSR. Pay attention to the reflection in the water here when Sonic casts the rod (time-stamped): https://youtube.com/watch?v=IaPMkpDOFng&t=42s https://youtube.com/watch?v=IaPMkpDOFng&t=42s Since it doesn't make sense to have a hole in a reflection when there's not actually a hole in the object, the reflection just stops when something occludes the object being reflected.
- redox99 3y ago
  I guess if you do that you're not too far from planar reflections in terms of cost, which would be better as well since they don't suffer from occlusion artifacts.

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago

Please tell me Cyberpunk lets you disable or at least turn down the bloom. In some scenes, the bloom just removes all detail and makes parts of the scene look like a blurry mess.

filoleg 3y ago
Yes, bloom and motion blur are disablable in settings.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  Motion blur is fine when done right. Fortnite, for example, does it right. I remember watching a character dance and thinking "This is so god damn smooth, why does it look so smooth?" and then I noticed the motion blur. When done right, it's subtle and you don't even notice it unless you're looking for it.
  - byyyy 3y ago
    Motion blur is an accurate rendition of how humans see things. Your eyes are not fast enough to take instantaneous pictures of fast moving objects. Instead when an object moves fast on an interval too fast for us to perceive we see everything that object did on that interval in the form of a "motion blur" Games that render frames don't actually replicate this because the object is rendered on discreet instances. Thus your eye is not able to properly capture the "motion blur" from a set of stop motion images. To fix this, games must use artificial motion blur to replicate what the eyes see. Disabling motion blur is a mistake it is required for fidelity. The problem with motion blur is if it's done for objects moving too slowly. Then it becomes noticeable because if your eyes are fast enough to capture the object without blur then adding blur becomes noticeable.
    - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
      I think it's three things: 1. Blur on slow objects, as you mentioned. Something moving 5 pixels per frame probably shouldn't have any blur applied. 2. Blur exceeding the distance moved per frame. If an object moves 20 pixels between frames, the blur should be less than 20 pixels wide. Ideally, I'd even argue that the blur width should be half the movement between frames. The example above of something moving only 5 pixels per frame probably shouldn't have any blur applied. 3. Blur on objects that are not moving relative to the camera. In a racing game being played with the camera above and behind the car, yes, the scenery should be blurred, but your car and the car right next to you that is driving the same speed as you should not be blurred. Though I suppose this is really just a special/specific case of problem 2 mentioned above. Of course, there's one problem with all of this: the video game camera is supposed to represent your eyes staring strictly in one direction. When your eyes follow an object, the object does not blur, but everything else you see does. This means that if you're tracking an object on your screen with your eyes, that object should not be blurred. Unfortunately, this is not possible for games to do, because they don't know where your gaze is actually directed. Finally, I can't close out this comment without mentioning the greatest offender when it comes to doing motion blur wrong: simply blending each frame with the previous one. There was an N64 game that did this, and my god it's horrible.

fbdab103 3y ago

At minimum, everything becomes significantly darker. Without a total redesign of set lighting with ray tracing in mind, it looks like a lot of areas would be barely playable.