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We had apple passkey posts over the last few months with people salivating over it but suddenly they hear google and suddenly the feature is evil from the start

We had apple passkey posts over the last few months with people salivating over it but suddenly they hear google and suddenly the feature is evil from the start. I'm not defending passkeys but you people need to pick a side to shill for.

georgyo 3y ago
Indeed, Apple's passkeys are the in the field of heroic security while Google's is an evil play to take away users power. The flip side here is that Apple gives a user near zero power in their walled garden, and is hostile towards anyone outside of it. So Apple passkeys can't take away user control because they never had any.
- latexr 3y ago
  You may not believe a statement from Apple, but: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35855113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35855113
  - admax88qqq 3y ago
    That's not a statement from Apple. That's a statement from an Apple developer. And I have no doubt that he believes it and intends to implement it. But that's not a guarantee that the corporation around him won't decide tomorrow that they don't want to implement it.
    - latexr 3y ago
      > That's a statement from an Apple developer. It’s a statement from the Engineering Manager of the “Authentication Experience” team. Ricky’s not a random unknown Apple developer, they’re someone with knowledge and authority on these matters. And as far as I know they’ve been reliable regarding what they share publicly.
      - crossroadsguy 3y ago
        Unless it's an official "Apple" statement (and not an employee saying it somewhere, maybe not even Cook) and part of the official documentation and actually implemented (so that in what shape and form Apple has actually implemented it and whether it is of any practical use at all or not) unfortunately that is just a random statement. That's Apple.
latexr 3y ago
I think you’re replying to the wrong comment. My point was neither pro nor against Apple, Google, or passkeys. > you people need to pick a side to shill for. This type of rhetoric is unnecessarily divisive, though. Attacking people isn’t an effective way of changing their mind or making them reconsider their point. Quite the contrary, it only makes them clam up.
- crossroadsguy 3y ago
  The parent comment is in bad taste (and it's indeed weird it was a reply to your comment, seems out of place) but from my experience and observation I have noticed that Apple shills/fanboys, especially, do not really change their views. I assume something get hardwired into them. But even then the best way is probably to just ignore and not attack them.
  - progbits 3y ago
    You are both right, it was a childish comment that I can no longer edit. Sorry. I do disagree ignoring them is the best. This gives them an echo chamber here and can others can get the impression they are always right. The attack was not helpful as you said. I'll try to do better in the future.
  - latexr 3y ago
    > but from my experience and observation I have noticed that Apple shills/fanboys, especially, do not really change their views. From my experience and observation, the people who hate on specific groups are more set in their ways than the people hated on. The preconception that someone is a shill and won’t change their mind does more harm to the conversation than what the other person believes. It is impossible to change someone’s mind if you start from the assumption that it won’t happen. Case in point: this very thread. It seemed like the person I replied to was angry and set in their ways, but they took stock of what was said, apologised, and vowed to do better. That is a positive outcome for everyone and all it took was to not lash out in return and a belief that everyone can have a bad day.

georgyo 3y ago

Indeed, Apple's passkeys are the in the field of heroic security while Google's is an evil play to take away users power. The flip side here is that Apple gives a user near zero power in their walled garden, and is hostile towards anyone outside of it. So Apple passkeys can't take away user control because they never had any.

latexr 3y ago
You may not believe a statement from Apple, but: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35855113 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35855113
- admax88qqq 3y ago
  That's not a statement from Apple. That's a statement from an Apple developer. And I have no doubt that he believes it and intends to implement it. But that's not a guarantee that the corporation around him won't decide tomorrow that they don't want to implement it.
  - latexr 3y ago
    > That's a statement from an Apple developer. It’s a statement from the Engineering Manager of the “Authentication Experience” team. Ricky’s not a random unknown Apple developer, they’re someone with knowledge and authority on these matters. And as far as I know they’ve been reliable regarding what they share publicly.
    - crossroadsguy 3y ago
      Unless it's an official "Apple" statement (and not an employee saying it somewhere, maybe not even Cook) and part of the official documentation and actually implemented (so that in what shape and form Apple has actually implemented it and whether it is of any practical use at all or not) unfortunately that is just a random statement. That's Apple.

latexr 3y ago

I think you’re replying to the wrong comment. My point was neither pro nor against Apple, Google, or passkeys. > you people need to pick a side to shill for. This type of rhetoric is unnecessarily divisive, though. Attacking people isn’t an effective way of changing their mind or making them reconsider their point. Quite the contrary, it only makes them clam up.

crossroadsguy 3y ago
The parent comment is in bad taste (and it's indeed weird it was a reply to your comment, seems out of place) but from my experience and observation I have noticed that Apple shills/fanboys, especially, do not really change their views. I assume something get hardwired into them. But even then the best way is probably to just ignore and not attack them.
- progbits 3y ago
  You are both right, it was a childish comment that I can no longer edit. Sorry. I do disagree ignoring them is the best. This gives them an echo chamber here and can others can get the impression they are always right. The attack was not helpful as you said. I'll try to do better in the future.
- latexr 3y ago
  > but from my experience and observation I have noticed that Apple shills/fanboys, especially, do not really change their views. From my experience and observation, the people who hate on specific groups are more set in their ways than the people hated on. The preconception that someone is a shill and won’t change their mind does more harm to the conversation than what the other person believes. It is impossible to change someone’s mind if you start from the assumption that it won’t happen. Case in point: this very thread. It seemed like the person I replied to was angry and set in their ways, but they took stock of what was said, apologised, and vowed to do better. That is a positive outcome for everyone and all it took was to not lash out in return and a belief that everyone can have a bad day.