8 ms·

Security, the classic excuse behind reducing freedom.

delfinom 3y ago
To be fair, they probably do have to deal with more creative fraud in the Chinese market. They just implemented a rather lazy solution.
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
Gotta secure your flimsy business model against competitors.
_ea1k 3y ago
Sometimes its a valid reason. I love the idea of being able to unlock the bootloader. I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me.
- froh 3y ago
  so it's about end customer security, thanks for elaborating!
- eidolon_93 3y ago
  > I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me. So how do you feel about PCs then? Because most computers sold doesn't have these draconian protections and apparently that has never been an issue.
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    I believe it has in fact been an issue with several areas of electronics, including PCs, in the past.
  - _23sd 3y ago
    Never been an issue? Just recently there was a LTT review of an Aliexpress laptop [1] where they found the Windows install had been tampered with (mostly because the Windows was pirated). PC or phone or anything, you buy stuff from shady sources it will not be trustworthy. If Xiaomi is/was locking down their phones to try and make purchasing from places like Aliexpress safer, I think that is a losing battle. [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=Um0l6ZSxfTE https://youtube.com/watch?v=Um0l6ZSxfTE
    - mort96 3y ago
      I bought a laptop from Dell and found the Windows install had been tampered with; there were all sorts of adware and trial software installed. Luckily, since the boot loader wasn't locked, I could install my own, clean OS.
      - _23sd 3y ago
        I don’t think that’s the point, when you get a device from Aliexpress that’s been tampered by the retailer (as opposed to the OEM), the bootloader will already be unlocked and you could install a clean OS. That’s okay if you are the one buying the device and somehow trust that the retailer hasn’t messed with the hardware as well, but it doesn’t help the manufacturer that wants to stop retailers from messing with the OS in the first place.
        hulitu 3y ago
        OEM or retailer it is the same thing: the device has been compromised.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    For laptops, it's a solved issue: https://puri.sm/posts/anti-interdiction-update-six-month-retrospective/ https://puri.sm/posts/anti-interdiction-update-six-month-ret....
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Yeah, that's fair, but unfortunately it has been a problem at times and also phones are a different world. The default expectation for phones is to be really heavily locked down. I wish that it wasn't that way. I'm still not going to bash the one major company that consistently comes the closest to being as open as I'd want. I'd love it to be better, but I also understand the real and legitimate reasons that it doesn't work out that way. Try to put those concerns in direct conflict with openness and the outcome is likely to be the worst possible.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  > I love the idea of being able to unlock the bootloader. > I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me. At the time it was their phone, and they can still do it by waiting 30 days. But what does it matter if you're just going to flash your own system anyway? Let them put whatever they want on it as long as you can blow it away and replace it with yours. And if you're not going to flash it yourself, make sure you buy it from a retailer you trust not to befoul it, or buy direct from the manufacturer. If you don't trust them then you have bigger problems.
  - bippihippi1 3y ago
    the preexisting firmware installs the bootloader, unless you mount the memory chips directly to your pc.
    - salawat 3y ago
      Got any info on how that is done? Curious minds wish to know.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      That isn't a law of nature. The device could easily have a tiny amount of actual ROM the sole purpose of which is to reflash the device, which would also be useful to recover from a bad flash. And if you want to talk about security, the most secure thing is to make all of the storage easily removable so it can be verified and reflashed from a known-clean device. Which would also make it upgradable, at the expense of an imperceptible single-digit number of grams in weight. That they don't do this is the proof that the other thing isn't really done for security.

To be fair, they probably do have to deal with more creative fraud in the Chinese market. They just implemented a rather lazy solution.

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago

Gotta secure your flimsy business model against competitors.

_ea1k 3y ago

Sometimes its a valid reason. I love the idea of being able to unlock the bootloader. I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me.

froh 3y ago
so it's about end customer security, thanks for elaborating!
eidolon_93 3y ago
> I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me. So how do you feel about PCs then? Because most computers sold doesn't have these draconian protections and apparently that has never been an issue.
- HWR_14 3y ago
  I believe it has in fact been an issue with several areas of electronics, including PCs, in the past.
- _23sd 3y ago
  Never been an issue? Just recently there was a LTT review of an Aliexpress laptop [1] where they found the Windows install had been tampered with (mostly because the Windows was pirated). PC or phone or anything, you buy stuff from shady sources it will not be trustworthy. If Xiaomi is/was locking down their phones to try and make purchasing from places like Aliexpress safer, I think that is a losing battle. [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=Um0l6ZSxfTE https://youtube.com/watch?v=Um0l6ZSxfTE
  - mort96 3y ago
    I bought a laptop from Dell and found the Windows install had been tampered with; there were all sorts of adware and trial software installed. Luckily, since the boot loader wasn't locked, I could install my own, clean OS.
    - _23sd 3y ago
      I don’t think that’s the point, when you get a device from Aliexpress that’s been tampered by the retailer (as opposed to the OEM), the bootloader will already be unlocked and you could install a clean OS. That’s okay if you are the one buying the device and somehow trust that the retailer hasn’t messed with the hardware as well, but it doesn’t help the manufacturer that wants to stop retailers from messing with the OS in the first place.
      - hulitu 3y ago
        OEM or retailer it is the same thing: the device has been compromised.
- fsflover 3y ago
  For laptops, it's a solved issue: https://puri.sm/posts/anti-interdiction-update-six-month-retrospective/ https://puri.sm/posts/anti-interdiction-update-six-month-ret....
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Yeah, that's fair, but unfortunately it has been a problem at times and also phones are a different world. The default expectation for phones is to be really heavily locked down. I wish that it wasn't that way. I'm still not going to bash the one major company that consistently comes the closest to being as open as I'd want. I'd love it to be better, but I also understand the real and legitimate reasons that it doesn't work out that way. Try to put those concerns in direct conflict with openness and the outcome is likely to be the worst possible.
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> I love the idea of being able to unlock the bootloader. > I don't love the idea of someone else being able to do it before the phone gets to me. At the time it was their phone, and they can still do it by waiting 30 days. But what does it matter if you're just going to flash your own system anyway? Let them put whatever they want on it as long as you can blow it away and replace it with yours. And if you're not going to flash it yourself, make sure you buy it from a retailer you trust not to befoul it, or buy direct from the manufacturer. If you don't trust them then you have bigger problems.
- bippihippi1 3y ago
  the preexisting firmware installs the bootloader, unless you mount the memory chips directly to your pc.
  - salawat 3y ago
    Got any info on how that is done? Curious minds wish to know.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    That isn't a law of nature. The device could easily have a tiny amount of actual ROM the sole purpose of which is to reflash the device, which would also be useful to recover from a bad flash. And if you want to talk about security, the most secure thing is to make all of the storage easily removable so it can be verified and reflashed from a known-clean device. Which would also make it upgradable, at the expense of an imperceptible single-digit number of grams in weight. That they don't do this is the proof that the other thing isn't really done for security.