5 ms·

Isn't this difficult to conclude? If a patient requiring a ventilator has 100% chance of dying without, or 50% chance of dying from secondary bacterial pneumon

Isn't this difficult to conclude? If a patient requiring a ventilator has 100% chance of dying without, or 50% chance of dying from secondary bacterial pneumonia. Then while it is true the use of ventialtors lead to deaths, it doesn't mean it caused more deaths than without

postalrat 3y ago
That's only true if you are limited to two options
- was_a_dev 3y ago
  Once you get to needing to be intubated, you pratically only have the one
  - hammock 3y ago
    Covid patients we thought needed to be intubated, didn’t. The science had to change and eventually we stopped killing Covid patients by putting them on vents. https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-...
- simplotek 3y ago
  > That's only true if you are limited to two options What other options do you think there are? And consider that you're already talking about people which are fainting and suffocating.
  - hammock 3y ago
    >you're already talking about people which are fainting and suffocating. No. Many Covid patients have blood oxygen levels so low they should be dead (into the 70s and even lower). But they’re not gasping for air, their hearts aren’t racing, and their brains show no signs of blinking off from lack of oxygen. They did not need vents- their pulse ox levels were misleading. https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-...
    - simplotek 3y ago
      It seems you are confused. You're pointing out observations from the very onset of the COVID pandemic, which were immediately adopted as policy. This is stuff that precedes other policies like placing ICU patients prone/lying face down to improve breathing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8864017/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8864017/ It makes absolutely no sense at all to fabricate conspiracy theories based on the assumption that everyone in the world was systematically subjected to a procedure which was rejected right from the start.

postalrat 3y ago

That's only true if you are limited to two options

was_a_dev 3y ago
Once you get to needing to be intubated, you pratically only have the one
- hammock 3y ago
  Covid patients we thought needed to be intubated, didn’t. The science had to change and eventually we stopped killing Covid patients by putting them on vents. https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-...
simplotek 3y ago
> That's only true if you are limited to two options What other options do you think there are? And consider that you're already talking about people which are fainting and suffocating.
- hammock 3y ago
  >you're already talking about people which are fainting and suffocating. No. Many Covid patients have blood oxygen levels so low they should be dead (into the 70s and even lower). But they’re not gasping for air, their hearts aren’t racing, and their brains show no signs of blinking off from lack of oxygen. They did not need vents- their pulse ox levels were misleading. https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-...
  - simplotek 3y ago
    It seems you are confused. You're pointing out observations from the very onset of the COVID pandemic, which were immediately adopted as policy. This is stuff that precedes other policies like placing ICU patients prone/lying face down to improve breathing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8864017/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8864017/ It makes absolutely no sense at all to fabricate conspiracy theories based on the assumption that everyone in the world was systematically subjected to a procedure which was rejected right from the start.