3 ms·

If you told my past self from the mid/late 2000s that the future chip wars would be between AMD and Apple, I would not have believed you at all!

giantrobot 4y ago
"What, did AMD switch to PowerPC?!"
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  Actually kind of funny that PowerPC being RISC could probably have been a contender for the M1.
pavlov 4y ago
Maybe not so implausible? AMD had a good run with the Athlon/K7 and the K8. The latter was so successful that Intel was forced to adopt its 64-bit ISA. The Pentium 4 (NetBurst) was a dead end design, and Intel had to backtrack and build off their laptop CPUs that were based on the older Pentium Pro design. Apple bought P.A. Semi in 2008, a company founded by Daniel Dobberpuhl of DEC Alpha fame. Clearly they had something brewing on the CPU front.
- mort96 4y ago
  Apple "clearly had something brewing on the CPU front" sure, they were just getting into the mobile phone industry; hearing that Apple would eventually make their own smartphone chips wouldn't have been surprising. What might've been surprising is them getting into the big, high performance desktop-class CPU segment and leading the industry in efficiency and performance HEDT chips for desktops. And Intel's relative irrelevance is certainly surprising, as is them losing the fab game to TSMC.
- nordsieck 4y ago
  > The Pentium 4 (NetBurst) was a dead end design, and Intel had to backtrack and build off their laptop CPUs that were based on the older Pentium Pro design. Don't forget Itanium, Intel's other dead end architecture. It's actually kind of amazing that Intel recovered from both at the same time (for the most part).
  - rodgerd 4y ago
    The great thing about collecting monopoly rents is that you can afford to fuck up again and again before it has any real cost to you.
    - doctor_eval 4y ago
      Are we back on the Google thread? /s
    - seti0Cha 4y ago
      In what way were they collecting monopoly rents? It seems like what happened was someone came out with a better product and took a bunch of their business. Isn't that exactly what monopolies are expected to prevent from happening, and, as I understand it, the reason they are considered so bad?
      - jasomill 4y ago
        https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/061-0247-intel-corporation-matter https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/0... The Commission filed an administrative complaint against Intel Corp., the world’s leading computer chip maker, charging that the company had illegally used its dominant market position for a decade to stifle competition and strengthen its monopoly. The complaint alleged that Intel engaged in a course of conduct to shut out rivals’ competing microchips by cutting off their access to the marketplace. In particular, the complaint alleged that Intel unlawfully maintained its monopoly in relevant central processing unit, or CPU, markets, and sought to acquire a second monopoly in the relevant graphics markets, using a variety of unfair methods of competition. In August of 2010, Intel agreed to a settlement containing provisions that would undo the effects of Intel's past conduct, and prohibiting Intel from suppressing competition in the future.
        seti0Cha 4y ago
        Huh, OP wasn't kidding. Thanks for taking my question seriously.
guidedlight 4y ago
With TSMC laughing all the way to the bank.
- nickpeterson 4y ago
  I don’t know, my guess is that TSMC is under a lot of stress. They may be making money, but I guarantee nobody is laughing.
klelatti 4y ago
Also pretty implausible in 1990 say that Arm would be the highest performing surviving RISC architecture [1]. [1] yes, I know ARM64 looks nothing like the ARM ISA of 1990.
Agathos 4y ago
It's the Alpha team all the way down (or actually their successors, by now). DEC -> AMD (Dirk Meyer, Jim Keller) DEC -> PA Semi -> Apple (Daniel Dobberpuhl)
- jasomill 4y ago
  You should probably include Intel in that list, given that they acquired DEC's chip fabs in 1997[1], the lion's share of Alpha IP in 2001[2], and hundreds of Alpha engineers over the next few years[3]. [1] https://www.wired.com/1997/10/intel-dec-settle-alpha-chip-dispute/#:~:text=In%20May%2C%20DEC%20filed%20the%20lawsuit%20in%20federal,use%20in%20improving%20the%20performance%20of%20its%20chips https://www.wired.com/1997/10/intel-dec-settle-alpha-chip-di.... [2] https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/archived/resources-archived/compaq-transfers-alpha-processors-to-intel-2001-06/ https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/archived/resources-ar... [3] https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/intel-gets-more-key-alpha-alums/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/intel-gets-more-key-...
phendrenad2 4y ago
"What happened to Intel?" "They focused on servers, uh, you know, like for http. Those are really big in the future" "Oh, weird"
rsynnott 4y ago
Really? IIRC the PPC970 (you could definitely debate to what extent this was Apple vs IBM, of course) and Athlon64 both handily beat Intel's stuff when they launched ~2003; it's just that they failed to maintain that lead.

giantrobot 4y ago

"What, did AMD switch to PowerPC?!"

phendrenad2 4y ago
Actually kind of funny that PowerPC being RISC could probably have been a contender for the M1.

pavlov 4y ago

Maybe not so implausible? AMD had a good run with the Athlon/K7 and the K8. The latter was so successful that Intel was forced to adopt its 64-bit ISA. The Pentium 4 (NetBurst) was a dead end design, and Intel had to backtrack and build off their laptop CPUs that were based on the older Pentium Pro design. Apple bought P.A. Semi in 2008, a company founded by Daniel Dobberpuhl of DEC Alpha fame. Clearly they had something brewing on the CPU front.

mort96 4y ago
Apple "clearly had something brewing on the CPU front" sure, they were just getting into the mobile phone industry; hearing that Apple would eventually make their own smartphone chips wouldn't have been surprising. What might've been surprising is them getting into the big, high performance desktop-class CPU segment and leading the industry in efficiency and performance HEDT chips for desktops. And Intel's relative irrelevance is certainly surprising, as is them losing the fab game to TSMC.
nordsieck 4y ago
> The Pentium 4 (NetBurst) was a dead end design, and Intel had to backtrack and build off their laptop CPUs that were based on the older Pentium Pro design. Don't forget Itanium, Intel's other dead end architecture. It's actually kind of amazing that Intel recovered from both at the same time (for the most part).
- rodgerd 4y ago
  The great thing about collecting monopoly rents is that you can afford to fuck up again and again before it has any real cost to you.
  - doctor_eval 4y ago
    Are we back on the Google thread? /s
  - seti0Cha 4y ago
    In what way were they collecting monopoly rents? It seems like what happened was someone came out with a better product and took a bunch of their business. Isn't that exactly what monopolies are expected to prevent from happening, and, as I understand it, the reason they are considered so bad?
    - jasomill 4y ago
      https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/061-0247-intel-corporation-matter https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings/0... The Commission filed an administrative complaint against Intel Corp., the world’s leading computer chip maker, charging that the company had illegally used its dominant market position for a decade to stifle competition and strengthen its monopoly. The complaint alleged that Intel engaged in a course of conduct to shut out rivals’ competing microchips by cutting off their access to the marketplace. In particular, the complaint alleged that Intel unlawfully maintained its monopoly in relevant central processing unit, or CPU, markets, and sought to acquire a second monopoly in the relevant graphics markets, using a variety of unfair methods of competition. In August of 2010, Intel agreed to a settlement containing provisions that would undo the effects of Intel's past conduct, and prohibiting Intel from suppressing competition in the future.
      - seti0Cha 4y ago
        Huh, OP wasn't kidding. Thanks for taking my question seriously.

guidedlight 4y ago

With TSMC laughing all the way to the bank.

nickpeterson 4y ago
I don’t know, my guess is that TSMC is under a lot of stress. They may be making money, but I guarantee nobody is laughing.

klelatti 4y ago

Also pretty implausible in 1990 say that Arm would be the highest performing surviving RISC architecture [1]. [1] yes, I know ARM64 looks nothing like the ARM ISA of 1990.

Agathos 4y ago

It's the Alpha team all the way down (or actually their successors, by now). DEC -> AMD (Dirk Meyer, Jim Keller) DEC -> PA Semi -> Apple (Daniel Dobberpuhl)

jasomill 4y ago
You should probably include Intel in that list, given that they acquired DEC's chip fabs in 1997[1], the lion's share of Alpha IP in 2001[2], and hundreds of Alpha engineers over the next few years[3]. [1] https://www.wired.com/1997/10/intel-dec-settle-alpha-chip-dispute/#:~:text=In%20May%2C%20DEC%20filed%20the%20lawsuit%20in%20federal,use%20in%20improving%20the%20performance%20of%20its%20chips https://www.wired.com/1997/10/intel-dec-settle-alpha-chip-di.... [2] https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/archived/resources-archived/compaq-transfers-alpha-processors-to-intel-2001-06/ https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/archived/resources-ar... [3] https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/intel-gets-more-key-alpha-alums/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/intel-gets-more-key-...

phendrenad2 4y ago

"What happened to Intel?" "They focused on servers, uh, you know, like for http. Those are really big in the future" "Oh, weird"

rsynnott 4y ago

Really? IIRC the PPC970 (you could definitely debate to what extent this was Apple vs IBM, of course) and Athlon64 both handily beat Intel's stuff when they launched ~2003; it's just that they failed to maintain that lead.