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I love the look of that house, seems extremely cosy and well-designed. But it's pretty hypocritical to present it as cheap and frugal. The cost of a house is

I love the look of that house, seems extremely cosy and well-designed. But it's pretty hypocritical to present it as cheap and frugal. The cost of a house is land + labor + material. Land costs depend on where you want to live, but can be the biggest factor. He mentions 1500 hours of labor, which, if you were paying somebody to do it, would be somewhere around 100000 USD (full cost of a skilled craftsman is around $60/hour). And even the 5000 dollars for materials is a fool's calculation, since he mentions using scrap materials, i.e. stuff that somebody else had to pay to produce. If you want something truly sustainable, i.e. not something pseudo-green and feelgood-ecologigal, but something that anybody can afford, you'd unfortunately would have to go with a mass-produced high-rise block of flats. Not a fan of the do-gooder hypocrisy here, but as an example of an architectural style that blends into nature it's adorable and looks fantastic.

Vivtek 15y ago
Yeah, I'll bet a mass-produced high-rise in China costs way less than $5000 per one-room unit, and at practically zero land cost, too, given its vastly smaller footprint. That's a damn good point.
anthonyb 15y ago
Not hypocritical at all, if you read the background story here: http://www.simondale.net/house/family.htm http://www.simondale.net/house/family.htm Initially we had no capital and we had decided resolutely to be full time parents whilst our children were young. As you’ll appreciate to be a full time mum and part time dad our income is low, about £5,000 p.a, so a mortgage was not an option and the prospects for renting seemed grim. Providence came our way and a landowner offered us the chance to move to his woodland in west Wales to build an eco-house. There would be no formal security or long term ownership, but £2000 was available for materials, so we jumped at the idea without a backward glance. Sounds like just the sort of risk-taking, scrappy bootstrapping story that'd do well on HN, but everyone seems to be bagging it. ps. Scrap = things that other people are chucking away, or will have to pay to take away. Making use of it is a good thing.
- dkhenry 15y ago
  If it was presented as a scrappy bootstrapping story that would be one thing but the article's title is misleading in that it says it was only $5000 to build, which the actual cost was a lot more, the total expenditure was $5000 , but total coast of materials and labor puts it well above $5000. This is more what people were thinking. http://web.mit.edu/cre/research/1k-house-project.html http://web.mit.edu/cre/research/1k-house-project.html
  - anthonyb 15y ago
    Which all seem to follow the exact same pattern, ie. only counting the cost of materials that you have to buy. From that link: The Soft Courtyard House This design draws heavily on bamboo, which is readily available in China... The Recycled Materials House As the name implies, this two-story structure uses locally- and regionally-available recycled materials, both to reduce costs and to promote sustainable housing practices. For example, fly ash residue from local coal-burning factories supplements the concrete medium and replaces the more expensive cement component. The composition of these L-shaped corner walls would be rammed earth and bamboo. In an innovative twist, the formwork that produces the rammed earth walls can be disassembled and then reassembled to create the roof. Not saying that these aren't all excellent ideas, but if the original article is 'misleading', then yours is too.
wisty 15y ago
A used shipping container is about $2,000. You'd want to check it for chemicals. It's closer to $10,000 if you want them fitted out as something you can live in, though. I'm not sure about the charm factor.
- brudgers 15y ago
  Shipping containers are always proposed as the ideal solution for someone else. Nobody would actually choose to live in such a shithole if they had other options.
  - ams6110 15y ago
    I knew a guy who was living in a self-storage unit for a while.
    - bdunbar 15y ago
      Freelance hacker? Greatest swordfighter in the world? Used to deliver pizza? That guy? Pretty cool guy, I hear.
  - lbotos 15y ago
    One can make some surprisingly beautiful houses out of shipping containers. I can't find the link at the moment but one such company advertises in dwell magazine. Hopefully I can find it.
    - smackfu 15y ago
      I believe it, but at a certain point you are just using the containers as a metal frame with sheet metal sides that you are cutting a lot of holes in, and at some point it would make more sense to just build a metal framed building in the first place.
    - brudgers 15y ago
      For houses featured in Dwell, shipping containers are merely a fetish incorporated into million dollar+ dwellings. Shipping containers are uninsulated and have stressed skin construction - they require a lot of work to be used as a thermal envelop, or when incorporating fenestration (not to mention blowing out a whole side. With the economic downturn, the glut of shipping containers is long gone and prices for used containers have risen significantly over the past several years. A lot of those buildings which are featured in glossy architectural rags are actually built with custom modules, not actual containers because the dimensions of a standard shipping container are suitable for...well, shipping, not human habitation - 7'-10" inside height before interior ceiling and wall finishes are added (and that's if your insulation is exterior).
lkozma 15y ago
He mentions 1500 hours of labor, which, if you were paying somebody to do it, would be somewhere around 100000 USD (full cost of a skilled craftsman is around $60/hour). This statement could be used against almost anything falling under DIY, hacking, hobby work, etc. I mean, sure, you are technically correct, but who counts that, if you are having fun doing something for yourself.
- smackfu 15y ago
  When you are bragging about cheapness, but it takes nine months of your full time labor to do the work, is that really cheap?
  - Karunamon 15y ago
    Labor doesn't have a dollar value unless you are paying or being paid for the work.
    - jessriedel 15y ago
      It has an opportunity cost, as well as a fair-market value.
      - freehunter 15y ago
        Everything has an opportunity cost. In this case, he managed to both go to work and build a house. He gave up his hobbies and in return built a house for "free" (gaining a new short-term hobby). How much are you and I giving up by reading HN right now? It's very, very difficult to attach a dollar value to opportunity cost when you weren't going to be doing anything money-making with that time anyway.
        tryitnow 15y ago
        Agreed, but then the headline should have been "Guy has a fun time spending 1,000 hours building a neat looking house." What bothers me is the bait and switch. It's bad journalism, but I would bet that the people who find this economically or ecologically "good" would be disinclined to change the headline because something to the effect of "dude has fun hobby" doesn't have the same "social good" connotations as the current headline.

Vivtek 15y ago

Yeah, I'll bet a mass-produced high-rise in China costs way less than $5000 per one-room unit, and at practically zero land cost, too, given its vastly smaller footprint. That's a damn good point.

anthonyb 15y ago

Not hypocritical at all, if you read the background story here: http://www.simondale.net/house/family.htm http://www.simondale.net/house/family.htm Initially we had no capital and we had decided resolutely to be full time parents whilst our children were young. As you’ll appreciate to be a full time mum and part time dad our income is low, about £5,000 p.a, so a mortgage was not an option and the prospects for renting seemed grim. Providence came our way and a landowner offered us the chance to move to his woodland in west Wales to build an eco-house. There would be no formal security or long term ownership, but £2000 was available for materials, so we jumped at the idea without a backward glance. Sounds like just the sort of risk-taking, scrappy bootstrapping story that'd do well on HN, but everyone seems to be bagging it. ps. Scrap = things that other people are chucking away, or will have to pay to take away. Making use of it is a good thing.

dkhenry 15y ago
If it was presented as a scrappy bootstrapping story that would be one thing but the article's title is misleading in that it says it was only $5000 to build, which the actual cost was a lot more, the total expenditure was $5000 , but total coast of materials and labor puts it well above $5000. This is more what people were thinking. http://web.mit.edu/cre/research/1k-house-project.html http://web.mit.edu/cre/research/1k-house-project.html
- anthonyb 15y ago
  Which all seem to follow the exact same pattern, ie. only counting the cost of materials that you have to buy. From that link: The Soft Courtyard House This design draws heavily on bamboo, which is readily available in China... The Recycled Materials House As the name implies, this two-story structure uses locally- and regionally-available recycled materials, both to reduce costs and to promote sustainable housing practices. For example, fly ash residue from local coal-burning factories supplements the concrete medium and replaces the more expensive cement component. The composition of these L-shaped corner walls would be rammed earth and bamboo. In an innovative twist, the formwork that produces the rammed earth walls can be disassembled and then reassembled to create the roof. Not saying that these aren't all excellent ideas, but if the original article is 'misleading', then yours is too.

wisty 15y ago

A used shipping container is about $2,000. You'd want to check it for chemicals. It's closer to $10,000 if you want them fitted out as something you can live in, though. I'm not sure about the charm factor.

brudgers 15y ago
Shipping containers are always proposed as the ideal solution for someone else. Nobody would actually choose to live in such a shithole if they had other options.
- ams6110 15y ago
  I knew a guy who was living in a self-storage unit for a while.
  - bdunbar 15y ago
    Freelance hacker? Greatest swordfighter in the world? Used to deliver pizza? That guy? Pretty cool guy, I hear.
- lbotos 15y ago
  One can make some surprisingly beautiful houses out of shipping containers. I can't find the link at the moment but one such company advertises in dwell magazine. Hopefully I can find it.
  - smackfu 15y ago
    I believe it, but at a certain point you are just using the containers as a metal frame with sheet metal sides that you are cutting a lot of holes in, and at some point it would make more sense to just build a metal framed building in the first place.
  - brudgers 15y ago
    For houses featured in Dwell, shipping containers are merely a fetish incorporated into million dollar+ dwellings. Shipping containers are uninsulated and have stressed skin construction - they require a lot of work to be used as a thermal envelop, or when incorporating fenestration (not to mention blowing out a whole side. With the economic downturn, the glut of shipping containers is long gone and prices for used containers have risen significantly over the past several years. A lot of those buildings which are featured in glossy architectural rags are actually built with custom modules, not actual containers because the dimensions of a standard shipping container are suitable for...well, shipping, not human habitation - 7'-10" inside height before interior ceiling and wall finishes are added (and that's if your insulation is exterior).

lkozma 15y ago

He mentions 1500 hours of labor, which, if you were paying somebody to do it, would be somewhere around 100000 USD (full cost of a skilled craftsman is around $60/hour). This statement could be used against almost anything falling under DIY, hacking, hobby work, etc. I mean, sure, you are technically correct, but who counts that, if you are having fun doing something for yourself.

smackfu 15y ago
When you are bragging about cheapness, but it takes nine months of your full time labor to do the work, is that really cheap?
- Karunamon 15y ago
  Labor doesn't have a dollar value unless you are paying or being paid for the work.
  - jessriedel 15y ago
    It has an opportunity cost, as well as a fair-market value.
    - freehunter 15y ago
      Everything has an opportunity cost. In this case, he managed to both go to work and build a house. He gave up his hobbies and in return built a house for "free" (gaining a new short-term hobby). How much are you and I giving up by reading HN right now? It's very, very difficult to attach a dollar value to opportunity cost when you weren't going to be doing anything money-making with that time anyway.
      - tryitnow 15y ago
        Agreed, but then the headline should have been "Guy has a fun time spending 1,000 hours building a neat looking house." What bothers me is the bait and switch. It's bad journalism, but I would bet that the people who find this economically or ecologically "good" would be disinclined to change the headline because something to the effect of "dude has fun hobby" doesn't have the same "social good" connotations as the current headline.