4 ms·

Is jvm pg and k8s boring enough? K8s is overkill. Jvm is heavy. Pg is fine but relational dbs generally suck.

by foffoofof 3y ago

beckingz 3y ago
elaborate on how relational databases suck?
- vbezhenar 3y ago
  They're not web scale. https://youtu.be/b2F-DItXtZs https://youtu.be/b2F-DItXtZs
- foffoofof 3y ago
  Try streaming updates to a query without polling…which is essentially all web apps. It’s fundamentally the wrong approach and people don’t realize. The relational model is good for analytics. Think about how often you need to know the internals or you have to debug perf by trying to get a black box to do what you want. Devs should be a layer deeper.
sanderjd 3y ago
What is better than relational dbs (and for what purposes)? I've been learning k8s fundamentals recently after using borg for a long time and then awhile kind of just poking at k8s trying to use it without learning it. Honestly I think it seems like about as simple as a solution to a broad set of real common problems could plausibly be.
- foffoofof 3y ago
  Relational dbs are based on relational model. It’s a giant black box of magic. And it’s magic is based on a bunch of constraints to make the relational algebra work. It’s really quite flawed for modern web apps.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    It ... really isn't a black box of magic? It's a transparent box of - as your comment points out - implementing a particular mathematical model. You're gonna need to give me some more on why it's "quite flawed for modern web apps". I may even agree with you, but it's tough to know from what you've written so far.
    - foffoofof 3y ago
      > isn't a black box of magic Referring mostly to the query planner - you have no control over it, and you have to dive deep to figure out why it's making certain plans, and how it collects statistics to make these calls. Plus the planner essentially gives up at 6+ joins. > quite flawed for modern web apps Try listening to updates on a query.

Is jvm pg and k8s boring enough? K8s is overkill. Jvm is heavy. Pg is fine but relational dbs generally suck.

beckingz 3y ago

elaborate on how relational databases suck?

vbezhenar 3y ago
They're not web scale. https://youtu.be/b2F-DItXtZs https://youtu.be/b2F-DItXtZs
foffoofof 3y ago
Try streaming updates to a query without polling…which is essentially all web apps. It’s fundamentally the wrong approach and people don’t realize. The relational model is good for analytics. Think about how often you need to know the internals or you have to debug perf by trying to get a black box to do what you want. Devs should be a layer deeper.

sanderjd 3y ago

What is better than relational dbs (and for what purposes)? I've been learning k8s fundamentals recently after using borg for a long time and then awhile kind of just poking at k8s trying to use it without learning it. Honestly I think it seems like about as simple as a solution to a broad set of real common problems could plausibly be.

foffoofof 3y ago
Relational dbs are based on relational model. It’s a giant black box of magic. And it’s magic is based on a bunch of constraints to make the relational algebra work. It’s really quite flawed for modern web apps.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  It ... really isn't a black box of magic? It's a transparent box of - as your comment points out - implementing a particular mathematical model. You're gonna need to give me some more on why it's "quite flawed for modern web apps". I may even agree with you, but it's tough to know from what you've written so far.
  - foffoofof 3y ago
    > isn't a black box of magic Referring mostly to the query planner - you have no control over it, and you have to dive deep to figure out why it's making certain plans, and how it collects statistics to make these calls. Plus the planner essentially gives up at 6+ joins. > quite flawed for modern web apps Try listening to updates on a query.