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I’m building something with Spring Boot, Kotlin, Postgres and containers, with a small team. It’s far from boring, it’s the most fun I’ve had in ages.

jpgvm 3y ago
Yeah I very much prefer Kotlin now. It's Boring Tech but at the same time pleasant because of it's high expressivity and tooling. Also I find it way easier to convince people coming from a dynamic language background to try it out vs Java which they find less approachable. Which is ironic as Kotlin is by far the more complicated language vs Java.
- re-thc 3y ago
  > Also I find it way easier to convince people coming from a dynamic language background to try it out vs Java which they find less approachable. It's just a sad fact of Kotlin is not Java. There are lots of people out there that just hate on Java as a hype train.
  - jpgvm 3y ago
    Yeah it's sad. Java is really really good these days.
switch007 3y ago
Spring is fun until you need to do anything mildly complex and then you tear your hair out trying to find the right documentation. You have to navigate myriad of sub projects. They really really need to sort out the SEO. It’s atrocious. The only way to learn Spring is to read the latest manuals of every subproject you think you might need, cover to cover. Even then you might not figure out what awkward collection of beans you need to override the magic Spring does.
- jpgvm 3y ago
  I found Spring to have a little bit of an understandability cliff. Coming from Guice though once I understood the container and had a feel for the general patterns it was easy. I think if you try to use it without understanding the magic you can probably get pretty far but you will always feel lost when things don't work just like the example. Understanding how all the runtime wiring works at the DI/IoC layer generally makes it pretty easy to work out what is going on though.

jpgvm 3y ago

Yeah I very much prefer Kotlin now. It's Boring Tech but at the same time pleasant because of it's high expressivity and tooling. Also I find it way easier to convince people coming from a dynamic language background to try it out vs Java which they find less approachable. Which is ironic as Kotlin is by far the more complicated language vs Java.

re-thc 3y ago
> Also I find it way easier to convince people coming from a dynamic language background to try it out vs Java which they find less approachable. It's just a sad fact of Kotlin is not Java. There are lots of people out there that just hate on Java as a hype train.
- jpgvm 3y ago
  Yeah it's sad. Java is really really good these days.

switch007 3y ago

Spring is fun until you need to do anything mildly complex and then you tear your hair out trying to find the right documentation. You have to navigate myriad of sub projects. They really really need to sort out the SEO. It’s atrocious. The only way to learn Spring is to read the latest manuals of every subproject you think you might need, cover to cover. Even then you might not figure out what awkward collection of beans you need to override the magic Spring does.

jpgvm 3y ago
I found Spring to have a little bit of an understandability cliff. Coming from Guice though once I understood the container and had a feel for the general patterns it was easy. I think if you try to use it without understanding the magic you can probably get pretty far but you will always feel lost when things don't work just like the example. Understanding how all the runtime wiring works at the DI/IoC layer generally makes it pretty easy to work out what is going on though.