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We really do have a mental energy meter. It doesn't seem to work like you'd intuitively think - Working doesn't necessarily spend it - seeing results, winning,

We really do have a mental energy meter. It doesn't seem to work like you'd intuitively think - Working doesn't necessarily spend it - seeing results, winning, can fill it up. Drudgery, working on a problem with high stakes and no clear idea of the right direction, having your hard work thrown away - those drain it. Meeting people can either drain it or fill it, depending on whether you're an introvert or not, how much you're listened to and how much you have to get off your chest. Physical illness can drain it immensely. Eating, physically relaxing can fill it. I don't know how to deal with it. How do I explain to coworkers and bosses why my productivity is low, set expectations around a physical illness that has lasted two years so far? An going fight with a neighbor or spouse? It's too hard sometimes. I got nothing. Guess the only thing we can do is keep our chins up and hope for the better times to come soon.

grensley 3y ago
In my experience the real killer is doing difficult, but low value work. It's particularly hard at startups, because every "pivot" is just that: a lot of hard work being discarded. You can try to rationalize it like "we learned something" or "at least we're not on that path anymore", but there's still a very real mental cost.
- whstl 3y ago
  True, but I think it depends on the people involved. Some of us are ok with discarding a few months of hard work, and once even two years. Others are not. I don’t know if this can be taught, but I can do it without rationalization. On the other hand, some of my previous coworkers left companies and had to enter therapy because of that.
kayodelycaon 3y ago
Being bipolar, I am acutely aware of managing mental energy. I’m constantly running on the edge of my limit to be functional in society. I can’t borrow energy from tomorrow. I borrow from the next fours. It seems to be impossible to explain this. People just don’t get it. They are so used to having nearly infinite reserve capacity and assume everyone else does too. I have none. Every time I run out of energy, it’s laziness, carelessness, or a dozen other moral failings because I can’t possibly be different from them. Fortunately, I’ve been able to convince people I’m doing my best and they are willing to accept something they don’t understand.
- tired-turtle 3y ago
  Can you elaborate on how you feel you’re borrowing from the next four hours? Do you think this relates to your meds (if any) or your disorder (or both)?
  - kayodelycaon 3y ago
    Looks like I missed a word. It's the next four days. I don't think it has anything to do with my meds. Everyone does this kind of energy borrowing.
- notfish 3y ago
  I’m guessing you’ve already read it, but I’ll post it for anyone who hasn’t: https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/ https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine... This is my go-to resource for explaining what it’s like to live with chronic illness to healthy loved ones. Christine is far more eloquent than I could ever be.
  - underdeserver 3y ago
    Awesome explanation. I also like that she ends up stealing a spoon from the diner.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    I hate it. It goes entirely against the style of my thinking. It's also very coarse-grained; under this theory, I routinely engage in fractional reserve spoon-banking. It's my go-to explanation anyway, because it hits the sweet spot of being close enough and easy to explain to just about anyone.
epiccoleman 3y ago
This is a really good description of how the "mental energy meter" seems to work for me. It's almost impossible for me to tell what fills it and what drains it! Yesterday, I spent the entire day ripping out some rotting boards from my deck and replacing them. I tore out 4 16' deck boards and another 12 4' boards from the stairs. Then cut new ones for all those and put them in. You wouldn't think that a project like that would take 12 hours, but there were so many little subtasks that had to happen that added up to a ton of work. I went to bed utterly physically drained, and was sure that I was going to wake up today feeling like doing nothing. Instead, I woke up at a reasonable time and went out to my yard to seed some grass. I just felt like getting more shit done! Meanwhile though, there have been times where I finish up some big programming task at work and then have a day or two where I just can't get momentum. I like weightlifting (although I'm a bit off the wagon currently). Sometimes, I get a huge burst of energy and focus from a session, and other times, I'm gassed and dead for the rest of the day. Same goes for socializing. Sometimes after an event I get home and can't shut up while talking to my wife. Other times I feel like I drained all my social energy for the next week. It's so strange how little contextual things make such a difference in whether the things I do energize or drain me. > I got nothing. Ditto ;)
- bigDinosaur 3y ago
  The best thing I've seen around this issue is that burnout is caused not by working too much (within reason) but by working on things which cause a conflict with your values. Those values might be anything - if you value using your intelligence to solve hard problems but work on trivial nonsense (perceived or real) then you may burn out working 20 hours a week. In other words: hours worked don't really correlate to the kind of deep depression-style burnout that prevents people from working for years. There is a burnout caused by working too much, but that's more of a standard chronic stress response, and can be solved simply by reducing the workload, whereas value-mismatch problems will persist even if you reduce the workload. Value-mismatch burnout requires major changes in your life to recover, basically.
agumonkey 3y ago
And I notice that the usual 7 min chat with colleagues is a deep reflex to refill/reset your brain. The fog goes away and you feel capable of pushing again. I don't know if it's a need to communicate pain, or find implicit emotional support with others.. or sensing the group doing efforts as a whole. ps: thank you for mentioning that mental energy can go up.. most mainstream convos only mention draining. I've been very curious on how to maintain team flow and high levels of mental energy. One trick I find working often is relay work. I do something, when I feel tension, you take the wheel. Seeing you relaxes me, let me see how you handle things, can revive some mimetic reflex in the brain (oh he/she's done some progress, I want to make some too now) and just when you are now tired, I feel ready to jump in. Pair programming++

grensley 3y ago

In my experience the real killer is doing difficult, but low value work. It's particularly hard at startups, because every "pivot" is just that: a lot of hard work being discarded. You can try to rationalize it like "we learned something" or "at least we're not on that path anymore", but there's still a very real mental cost.

whstl 3y ago
True, but I think it depends on the people involved. Some of us are ok with discarding a few months of hard work, and once even two years. Others are not. I don’t know if this can be taught, but I can do it without rationalization. On the other hand, some of my previous coworkers left companies and had to enter therapy because of that.

kayodelycaon 3y ago

Being bipolar, I am acutely aware of managing mental energy. I’m constantly running on the edge of my limit to be functional in society. I can’t borrow energy from tomorrow. I borrow from the next fours. It seems to be impossible to explain this. People just don’t get it. They are so used to having nearly infinite reserve capacity and assume everyone else does too. I have none. Every time I run out of energy, it’s laziness, carelessness, or a dozen other moral failings because I can’t possibly be different from them. Fortunately, I’ve been able to convince people I’m doing my best and they are willing to accept something they don’t understand.

tired-turtle 3y ago
Can you elaborate on how you feel you’re borrowing from the next four hours? Do you think this relates to your meds (if any) or your disorder (or both)?
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  Looks like I missed a word. It's the next four days. I don't think it has anything to do with my meds. Everyone does this kind of energy borrowing.
notfish 3y ago
I’m guessing you’ve already read it, but I’ll post it for anyone who hasn’t: https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/ https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine... This is my go-to resource for explaining what it’s like to live with chronic illness to healthy loved ones. Christine is far more eloquent than I could ever be.
- underdeserver 3y ago
  Awesome explanation. I also like that she ends up stealing a spoon from the diner.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  I hate it. It goes entirely against the style of my thinking. It's also very coarse-grained; under this theory, I routinely engage in fractional reserve spoon-banking. It's my go-to explanation anyway, because it hits the sweet spot of being close enough and easy to explain to just about anyone.

epiccoleman 3y ago

This is a really good description of how the "mental energy meter" seems to work for me. It's almost impossible for me to tell what fills it and what drains it! Yesterday, I spent the entire day ripping out some rotting boards from my deck and replacing them. I tore out 4 16' deck boards and another 12 4' boards from the stairs. Then cut new ones for all those and put them in. You wouldn't think that a project like that would take 12 hours, but there were so many little subtasks that had to happen that added up to a ton of work. I went to bed utterly physically drained, and was sure that I was going to wake up today feeling like doing nothing. Instead, I woke up at a reasonable time and went out to my yard to seed some grass. I just felt like getting more shit done! Meanwhile though, there have been times where I finish up some big programming task at work and then have a day or two where I just can't get momentum. I like weightlifting (although I'm a bit off the wagon currently). Sometimes, I get a huge burst of energy and focus from a session, and other times, I'm gassed and dead for the rest of the day. Same goes for socializing. Sometimes after an event I get home and can't shut up while talking to my wife. Other times I feel like I drained all my social energy for the next week. It's so strange how little contextual things make such a difference in whether the things I do energize or drain me. > I got nothing. Ditto ;)

bigDinosaur 3y ago
The best thing I've seen around this issue is that burnout is caused not by working too much (within reason) but by working on things which cause a conflict with your values. Those values might be anything - if you value using your intelligence to solve hard problems but work on trivial nonsense (perceived or real) then you may burn out working 20 hours a week. In other words: hours worked don't really correlate to the kind of deep depression-style burnout that prevents people from working for years. There is a burnout caused by working too much, but that's more of a standard chronic stress response, and can be solved simply by reducing the workload, whereas value-mismatch problems will persist even if you reduce the workload. Value-mismatch burnout requires major changes in your life to recover, basically.

agumonkey 3y ago

And I notice that the usual 7 min chat with colleagues is a deep reflex to refill/reset your brain. The fog goes away and you feel capable of pushing again. I don't know if it's a need to communicate pain, or find implicit emotional support with others.. or sensing the group doing efforts as a whole. ps: thank you for mentioning that mental energy can go up.. most mainstream convos only mention draining. I've been very curious on how to maintain team flow and high levels of mental energy. One trick I find working often is relay work. I do something, when I feel tension, you take the wheel. Seeing you relaxes me, let me see how you handle things, can revive some mimetic reflex in the brain (oh he/she's done some progress, I want to make some too now) and just when you are now tired, I feel ready to jump in. Pair programming++