3 ms·

Not a lawyer, but my reading of this was quite different. It seems to me like the core of the argument is that "OpenAI" wants non-profit benefits while clearly

Not a lawyer, but my reading of this was quite different. It seems to me like the core of the argument is that "OpenAI" wants non-profit benefits while clearly profiting. While the complaint document itself is verbose, I imagine this is the kind of thing that eventually contributes to setting a precedent for how training data is handled in the legal system as well?

minimaxir 3y ago
IANAL too, but if there is indeed a legal case for material misrepresentation, it would make more sense to be brought by OpenAI shareholders or the FTC, not some random dude from Texas.
- rat9988 3y ago
  What's wrong with the guy from texas that he shouldn't do it?
  - minimaxir 3y ago
    No standing.
    - redeux 3y ago
      I agree with you, but based on recent precedent [1], standing no longer seems to be a major concern of the judiciary. 1. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/politics/student-loan-supreme-court-standing/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/politics/student-loan-supreme...
- MacsHeadroom 3y ago
  You think the shareholders of the non-profit's for-profit subsidiary should sue themselves for profiting from a non-profit? That doesn't make sense and is completely backwards. The allegedly damaged party is society, with the major shareholders as defendants. As a pro se litigant this probably won't go far. But the directionality of the suit seems correct.
- crdrost 3y ago
  That will probably be an early point of litigation, does the non-profit’s behavior of depriving you from these tools like GPT4 amount to damages such that you have standing to bring this case. So that's a huge hurdle. Might be why it's brought pro se. In some ways it's a more powerful result if plaintiff prevails though, as it dramatically increases the amount of legal stakeholders in the activity of OpenAI... “You filed as a non-profit, now if you start acting like a for-profit, anyone who is systematically excluded from your business dealings can sue you.”
  - RC_ITR 3y ago
    Non profits are completely within their right to choose who they offer services to. They can select most at risk populations, etc.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > IANAL too, but if there is indeed a legal case for material misrepresentation, it would make more sense to be brought by OpenAI shareholders The case is for material misrepesentation to benefit OpenAI shareholders at the expense of the identified intended beneficiaries of (and donors to) the OpenAI nonprofit. Why would the beneficiaries of the fraud challenge it? > or the FTC, not some random dude from Texas. The law often creates multiple different parties with a legitimate and enforceable interewt in the same requirement; while the plaintiff here doesn’t have the strongest standing claim in the world, it is not diminished for thr fact that some of the allegations create much stronger claims for, say, the IRS and state tax authorities or donors to the nonprofit (particularly the accusations of the nonprofit being fraudulently organized and operated for self-dealing for the commercial benefit of certain of its organizers.)
cowsandmilk 3y ago
This is the kind of thing that gets thrown out of court. And that is the judge feels sorry for the person who filed the suit. It is also possible th person who filed gets hit with not only court fees, but also paying for 5-10 hours of a lot of high priced lawyers for the defendants.
riazrizvi 3y ago
I thought non-profits were allowed to make money?

minimaxir 3y ago

IANAL too, but if there is indeed a legal case for material misrepresentation, it would make more sense to be brought by OpenAI shareholders or the FTC, not some random dude from Texas.

rat9988 3y ago
What's wrong with the guy from texas that he shouldn't do it?
- minimaxir 3y ago
  No standing.
  - redeux 3y ago
    I agree with you, but based on recent precedent [1], standing no longer seems to be a major concern of the judiciary. 1. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/politics/student-loan-supreme-court-standing/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/politics/student-loan-supreme...
MacsHeadroom 3y ago
You think the shareholders of the non-profit's for-profit subsidiary should sue themselves for profiting from a non-profit? That doesn't make sense and is completely backwards. The allegedly damaged party is society, with the major shareholders as defendants. As a pro se litigant this probably won't go far. But the directionality of the suit seems correct.
crdrost 3y ago
That will probably be an early point of litigation, does the non-profit’s behavior of depriving you from these tools like GPT4 amount to damages such that you have standing to bring this case. So that's a huge hurdle. Might be why it's brought pro se. In some ways it's a more powerful result if plaintiff prevails though, as it dramatically increases the amount of legal stakeholders in the activity of OpenAI... “You filed as a non-profit, now if you start acting like a for-profit, anyone who is systematically excluded from your business dealings can sue you.”
- RC_ITR 3y ago
  Non profits are completely within their right to choose who they offer services to. They can select most at risk populations, etc.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> IANAL too, but if there is indeed a legal case for material misrepresentation, it would make more sense to be brought by OpenAI shareholders The case is for material misrepesentation to benefit OpenAI shareholders at the expense of the identified intended beneficiaries of (and donors to) the OpenAI nonprofit. Why would the beneficiaries of the fraud challenge it? > or the FTC, not some random dude from Texas. The law often creates multiple different parties with a legitimate and enforceable interewt in the same requirement; while the plaintiff here doesn’t have the strongest standing claim in the world, it is not diminished for thr fact that some of the allegations create much stronger claims for, say, the IRS and state tax authorities or donors to the nonprofit (particularly the accusations of the nonprofit being fraudulently organized and operated for self-dealing for the commercial benefit of certain of its organizers.)

cowsandmilk 3y ago

This is the kind of thing that gets thrown out of court. And that is the judge feels sorry for the person who filed the suit. It is also possible th person who filed gets hit with not only court fees, but also paying for 5-10 hours of a lot of high priced lawyers for the defendants.

riazrizvi 3y ago

I thought non-profits were allowed to make money?