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Tangent: any tips on how to make the M-x line more usable, similar to a command palette? I just got started with Emacs, and the archaic terminology and inconsi

Tangent: any tips on how to make the M-x line more usable, similar to a command palette? I just got started with Emacs, and the archaic terminology and inconsistent naming is causing me to have to consult StackOverflow for basic things like “what are the copy and paste commands called?”. (Those were probably both in the tutorial, but I already forgot them a few times.) I’m aware of “apropos”, but it also uses antiquated terminology, so it’s frequently not useful to me. I’m sure this problem has been solved :)

Conscat 3y ago
You probably want posframe along with one of the many options for a vertical completion candidate minibuffer (I like vertico), and a package like marginalia to annotate the options like VS Code. A non-default completion-style like hotfuzz, flx, or orderless might also interest you.
bitwize 3y ago
I use ivy-mode. Apparently it's not the cool thing anymore, but I use it because it's simple and it works. With ivy-mode enabled, anything Emacs asks you that has a list of options -- so, M-x, file selection, buffer selection, etc. -- will pop up a little menu right in your minibuffer. It should be available in ELPA, with a more recent release in MELPA.
_a_a_a_ 3y ago
> I’m aware of “apropos”, but it also uses antiquated terminology can you clarify 'antiquated' for me please
- schemescape 3y ago
  Here’s an example: M-x, “apropos”, RET, “copy text” No apropos matches for “copy text” Using just “copy” returns two undocumented variables first. I did eventually find kill-ring-save, but it took more digging than I’d like. Obviously if I embraced (or at least remembered) Emacs’s terminology I’d have a better experience, but I’m not there yet. Edit again: “copy selection” found copy-region-as-kill, which is maybe what I should have searched for originally. Not sure yet how it differs from kill-ring-save.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    OK, fair enough
  - alwaysbeconsing 3y ago
    I'm sympathetic to this argument but I just searched apropos for "cut" and then for "copy" and got many commands related to cutting/copying text. Granted also that the words "copy" and "cut" don't seem to appear in the results, so you still have some reading to do, but the metadata is apparently there. What version of Emacs did you try?
- munch117 3y ago
  Yank instead of paste. Frame instead of window. Kill instead of delete. kill-ring-save instead of copy. I was going to add 'visit instead of open', but I guess that bit has changed over the years. C-x C-v no longer invokes 'visit-file'.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    While I completely get what you're saying it's not really fair to expect Emacs to be compatible with systems that came after it. If you going to work in Emacs you have to pretty much work on its terms, which I think is fairly reasonable and speaking only for myself, I found very worthwhile. If you think it would make it more accessible to have certain changes, email the Emacs issue/bug people with constructive suggestions and see what they say; they are extremely responsive (then try doing the same with Apple or Microsoft and see what happens :-) )
    - munch117 3y ago
      I'm a happy Emacs user myself. Nobody change anything for my sake.
    - bitwize 3y ago
      It absolutely is fair to expect Emacs to use industry standard terminology to avoid confusing users. At this point, keeping the outdated, idiosyncratic terminology and default UI paradigms serves no purpose except unnecessary gatekeeping. > (then try doing the same with Apple or Microsoft and see what happens :-) ) Microsoft, the authors of Visual Studio Code, the editor most developers use? Whose team has been lauded for being super responsive to developer feedback?
      - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
        > It absolutely is fair to expect Emacs to use industry standard terminology to avoid confusing users "Initial release 1976; 47 years ago" (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs). There was no such standard terminology back then. May I recommend you avoid using Emacs to avoid the concomitant headache of getting involved in Emacs discussions, thank you.It clearly isn't for you.
munch117 3y ago
In the old days, we wouldn't dream of taking up a new editor without first printing out a cheat sheet for it, to have lying next to the keyboard for the first few days. Yeah I know, archaic terminology: 'printing'. It's a thing we used to do.

Conscat 3y ago

You probably want posframe along with one of the many options for a vertical completion candidate minibuffer (I like vertico), and a package like marginalia to annotate the options like VS Code. A non-default completion-style like hotfuzz, flx, or orderless might also interest you.

bitwize 3y ago

I use ivy-mode. Apparently it's not the cool thing anymore, but I use it because it's simple and it works. With ivy-mode enabled, anything Emacs asks you that has a list of options -- so, M-x, file selection, buffer selection, etc. -- will pop up a little menu right in your minibuffer. It should be available in ELPA, with a more recent release in MELPA.

_a_a_a_ 3y ago

> I’m aware of “apropos”, but it also uses antiquated terminology can you clarify 'antiquated' for me please

schemescape 3y ago
Here’s an example: M-x, “apropos”, RET, “copy text” No apropos matches for “copy text” Using just “copy” returns two undocumented variables first. I did eventually find kill-ring-save, but it took more digging than I’d like. Obviously if I embraced (or at least remembered) Emacs’s terminology I’d have a better experience, but I’m not there yet. Edit again: “copy selection” found copy-region-as-kill, which is maybe what I should have searched for originally. Not sure yet how it differs from kill-ring-save.
- _a_a_a_ 3y ago
  OK, fair enough
- alwaysbeconsing 3y ago
  I'm sympathetic to this argument but I just searched apropos for "cut" and then for "copy" and got many commands related to cutting/copying text. Granted also that the words "copy" and "cut" don't seem to appear in the results, so you still have some reading to do, but the metadata is apparently there. What version of Emacs did you try?
munch117 3y ago
Yank instead of paste. Frame instead of window. Kill instead of delete. kill-ring-save instead of copy. I was going to add 'visit instead of open', but I guess that bit has changed over the years. C-x C-v no longer invokes 'visit-file'.
- _a_a_a_ 3y ago
  While I completely get what you're saying it's not really fair to expect Emacs to be compatible with systems that came after it. If you going to work in Emacs you have to pretty much work on its terms, which I think is fairly reasonable and speaking only for myself, I found very worthwhile. If you think it would make it more accessible to have certain changes, email the Emacs issue/bug people with constructive suggestions and see what they say; they are extremely responsive (then try doing the same with Apple or Microsoft and see what happens :-) )
  - munch117 3y ago
    I'm a happy Emacs user myself. Nobody change anything for my sake.
  - bitwize 3y ago
    It absolutely is fair to expect Emacs to use industry standard terminology to avoid confusing users. At this point, keeping the outdated, idiosyncratic terminology and default UI paradigms serves no purpose except unnecessary gatekeeping. > (then try doing the same with Apple or Microsoft and see what happens :-) ) Microsoft, the authors of Visual Studio Code, the editor most developers use? Whose team has been lauded for being super responsive to developer feedback?
    - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
      > It absolutely is fair to expect Emacs to use industry standard terminology to avoid confusing users "Initial release 1976; 47 years ago" (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs). There was no such standard terminology back then. May I recommend you avoid using Emacs to avoid the concomitant headache of getting involved in Emacs discussions, thank you.It clearly isn't for you.

munch117 3y ago

In the old days, we wouldn't dream of taking up a new editor without first printing out a cheat sheet for it, to have lying next to the keyboard for the first few days. Yeah I know, archaic terminology: 'printing'. It's a thing we used to do.