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For me it’s the opposite, it ashames me to be an EU citizen. The problem with the EU is that it forces this kind of stuff on everyone instead of letting countri

For me it’s the opposite, it ashames me to be an EU citizen. The problem with the EU is that it forces this kind of stuff on everyone instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. There is little/no feedback control hence it will drift down the usual decline of increasingly authoritarian systems. It‘s a shame because of the opportunity costs.

heresie-dabord 3y ago
> instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. The way we have let manufacturers compete to create the best standard for power adaptors?
- lttlrck 3y ago
  Depends if you believe in letting the market decide, or not.
  - madsbuch 3y ago
    there is no market without regulation. in the old days, the government ensured that the physically strong people would not get the best deals because they could force you to give up your product. This appears to be the modern day equivalent.
    - truthexposed 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - lttlrck 3y ago
      Regulations should level the playing field, per your example. This doesn't do anything like that.
- ericmay 3y ago
  Do you mean the plug in the wall for adapters? Assuming so but please correct me if I’m wrong. :) Not the hill I’m going to die on, but doesn’t the lack of change kind of prove the point? Is what we have today the absolute best thing we could have? There’s probably room for innovation here. It’s a balance right? Not changing is good but also… it can’t get any better. With consumer electronic devices we’d still be using DVI ports and the red/yellow/white audio video cables had this legislation come into existence only a few years back. Important to remember that. That being said I think Apple should support USB-C across all devices because it’s just damn good. I was irritated they added the HDMI port back actually. Hopefully they’ll remove it in the future again and just keep USB-C everything. From what I understand Thunderbolt is actually a pretty good implantation it’s just proprietary for Apple. That’s fine. I also understand Apple’s desire to maintain a minimum level of quality for USB-C cables being plugged into the iPhone. I’m not sure why that’s controversial.
  - justincormack 3y ago
    Thunderbolt on new Apple machines is USB4, and not proprietary.
    - ericmay 3y ago
      You're right I was thinking of the lightning cable. (Thunderbolt -> Lightning ugh)
- artemkkk 3y ago
  I wouldn't agree, we are all living in a system where monopolies are trying to benefit easiest ways, and diverse population tries to eliminate useless gatekeeping by as minimum regulation as possible. The complexity of this "minimum regulation" task always evolves, and not that many countries succeed ever. So in my opinion, EU as a joint effort of _countries_ you mentioned, forced to break this useless monopoly gatekeeping, making competition tougher for monopolist. This is good, but it is very rare occasion when it's really that easy solution like this. And yeah it could be patternized in a wrong way obviously... but the idea itself is for good. It it the reason why standards exist, it makes coordination cheaper, competition tougher, and users more productive.
  - WanderPanda 3y ago
    Standards are fine, but do they need to be enforced with guns?
- AlchemistCamp 3y ago
  Yes. Apple, in particular, has driven adoption of new and improved cables and adapters. This has been true of USB, Firewire and Thunderbolt. If the EU were as heavy handed 20 years ago as it is today, we'd almost certainly have less bandwidth and slower charging.
_8j50 3y ago
While on the one hand the EU as a collective has more power than member states, it's a stark contrast to the US for example where companies and people move around to states whose laws suit them. I for one am all for apple's hardware, so if California banned lightning port for example I can happily avoid them and they do ban and regulate a lot of things yet they are the richest and most populous state even with people preferring other states for nicer laws. "Everybody gets a place and united we will prosper" should be the motto of any union of states.
truthexposed 3y ago
[flagged]
- m101010 3y ago
  Usually I like reading the HN comment section as it is one of the few places (I know of) where people communicate in a respectful manner. Unfortunately, conjecturing about someones IQ in this manner because his view differs, makes me reconsider this.
  - truthexposed 3y ago
    [flagged]
trollied 3y ago
You must be young & not remember the huge mess that charging was in the early 2000s. Every single brand had a proprietary charging port/connector - same with their data connectors. These days it’s bliss in comparison. They more often than not were also hard wired into the electrical plug, making matters even worse (and power bricks weren’t solid state, they were cooper transformers, which were heavy!).
- msie 3y ago
  Yes it's better now and you didn't need legislation to force it.

heresie-dabord 3y ago

> instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. The way we have let manufacturers compete to create the best standard for power adaptors?

lttlrck 3y ago
Depends if you believe in letting the market decide, or not.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  there is no market without regulation. in the old days, the government ensured that the physically strong people would not get the best deals because they could force you to give up your product. This appears to be the modern day equivalent.
  - truthexposed 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - lttlrck 3y ago
    Regulations should level the playing field, per your example. This doesn't do anything like that.
ericmay 3y ago
Do you mean the plug in the wall for adapters? Assuming so but please correct me if I’m wrong. :) Not the hill I’m going to die on, but doesn’t the lack of change kind of prove the point? Is what we have today the absolute best thing we could have? There’s probably room for innovation here. It’s a balance right? Not changing is good but also… it can’t get any better. With consumer electronic devices we’d still be using DVI ports and the red/yellow/white audio video cables had this legislation come into existence only a few years back. Important to remember that. That being said I think Apple should support USB-C across all devices because it’s just damn good. I was irritated they added the HDMI port back actually. Hopefully they’ll remove it in the future again and just keep USB-C everything. From what I understand Thunderbolt is actually a pretty good implantation it’s just proprietary for Apple. That’s fine. I also understand Apple’s desire to maintain a minimum level of quality for USB-C cables being plugged into the iPhone. I’m not sure why that’s controversial.
- justincormack 3y ago
  Thunderbolt on new Apple machines is USB4, and not proprietary.
  - ericmay 3y ago
    You're right I was thinking of the lightning cable. (Thunderbolt -> Lightning ugh)
artemkkk 3y ago
I wouldn't agree, we are all living in a system where monopolies are trying to benefit easiest ways, and diverse population tries to eliminate useless gatekeeping by as minimum regulation as possible. The complexity of this "minimum regulation" task always evolves, and not that many countries succeed ever. So in my opinion, EU as a joint effort of _countries_ you mentioned, forced to break this useless monopoly gatekeeping, making competition tougher for monopolist. This is good, but it is very rare occasion when it's really that easy solution like this. And yeah it could be patternized in a wrong way obviously... but the idea itself is for good. It it the reason why standards exist, it makes coordination cheaper, competition tougher, and users more productive.
- WanderPanda 3y ago
  Standards are fine, but do they need to be enforced with guns?
AlchemistCamp 3y ago
Yes. Apple, in particular, has driven adoption of new and improved cables and adapters. This has been true of USB, Firewire and Thunderbolt. If the EU were as heavy handed 20 years ago as it is today, we'd almost certainly have less bandwidth and slower charging.

_8j50 3y ago

While on the one hand the EU as a collective has more power than member states, it's a stark contrast to the US for example where companies and people move around to states whose laws suit them. I for one am all for apple's hardware, so if California banned lightning port for example I can happily avoid them and they do ban and regulate a lot of things yet they are the richest and most populous state even with people preferring other states for nicer laws. "Everybody gets a place and united we will prosper" should be the motto of any union of states.

truthexposed 3y ago

[flagged]

m101010 3y ago
Usually I like reading the HN comment section as it is one of the few places (I know of) where people communicate in a respectful manner. Unfortunately, conjecturing about someones IQ in this manner because his view differs, makes me reconsider this.
- truthexposed 3y ago
  [flagged]

trollied 3y ago

You must be young & not remember the huge mess that charging was in the early 2000s. Every single brand had a proprietary charging port/connector - same with their data connectors. These days it’s bliss in comparison. They more often than not were also hard wired into the electrical plug, making matters even worse (and power bricks weren’t solid state, they were cooper transformers, which were heavy!).

msie 3y ago
Yes it's better now and you didn't need legislation to force it.