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There's two kinds of Libertarians - the ones who actually think all government interference is bad, and those who think that governments simply have a tendency

by wisty 15y ago

There's two kinds of Libertarians - the ones who actually think all government interference is bad, and those who think that governments simply have a tendency to go too far, so fighting government interference will probably push them back to a more reasonable position. The first kind are louder.

ThomPete 15y ago
But isn't the result the same? I can't help think that we started without governments and ended up with them. In fact it seems like governments beat every other known alternative power structure. In other words even if we removed all nation states and started from scratch we would most likely end up with some sort of government. The reasons for this are manifold, but especially the democratic state have some inherent perceptual integrity since it allows for "resetting". But of course as always these are not objective metrics at all. But the problem with libertarians isn't their view but rather the idea it itself. We started in many ways in a libertarian world. Evolution took us to the states and technology will maybe take us through the state and to something completely different but carried on from the current system.
- natrius 15y ago
  You're arguing against anarchism, not libertarianism.
  - ThomPete 15y ago
    Not really. I am arguing against the idea of non-governments.
    - natrius 15y ago
      What does that have to do with libertarianism? Most libertarians want a government.
      - ThomPete 15y ago
        My experience is the opposite.
arethuza 15y ago
What's the difference between the first type of libertarian you describe and anarchists? [Note I'm not being snarky: where I am, I've never heard anyone describe themself as a libertarian but I have met people who claim to be anarchists].
- wisty 15y ago
  Some extreme Libertarians think governments have an extremely limited place - protecting personel and property rights, for example. Others are outright anarchists. Though there's a number of different kinds of anarchists, who really don't agree with each other - the "Anarchism" page on wikipedia is both "part of a series on Libertarianism", and "part of a series on Libertarian Socialism". So when I said "there's two types", I was lying a bit.

by wisty 15y ago

ThomPete 15y ago

But isn't the result the same? I can't help think that we started without governments and ended up with them. In fact it seems like governments beat every other known alternative power structure. In other words even if we removed all nation states and started from scratch we would most likely end up with some sort of government. The reasons for this are manifold, but especially the democratic state have some inherent perceptual integrity since it allows for "resetting". But of course as always these are not objective metrics at all. But the problem with libertarians isn't their view but rather the idea it itself. We started in many ways in a libertarian world. Evolution took us to the states and technology will maybe take us through the state and to something completely different but carried on from the current system.

natrius 15y ago
You're arguing against anarchism, not libertarianism.
- ThomPete 15y ago
  Not really. I am arguing against the idea of non-governments.
  - natrius 15y ago
    What does that have to do with libertarianism? Most libertarians want a government.
    - ThomPete 15y ago
      My experience is the opposite.

arethuza 15y ago

What's the difference between the first type of libertarian you describe and anarchists? [Note I'm not being snarky: where I am, I've never heard anyone describe themself as a libertarian but I have met people who claim to be anarchists].

wisty 15y ago
Some extreme Libertarians think governments have an extremely limited place - protecting personel and property rights, for example. Others are outright anarchists. Though there's a number of different kinds of anarchists, who really don't agree with each other - the "Anarchism" page on wikipedia is both "part of a series on Libertarianism", and "part of a series on Libertarian Socialism". So when I said "there's two types", I was lying a bit.