5 ms·

It's really a shocker to me whenever I see people in obviously difficult situations worry about their productivity. Like is this really what modern life has bec

It's really a shocker to me whenever I see people in obviously difficult situations worry about their productivity. Like is this really what modern life has become? Build whole identities around being productive and doing a good job to an extent that someone who sees a foundation of their life falling apart is feeling guilt about not doing enough for their work.

racktash 3y ago
Some people definitely do fixate (and derive a sense of purpose, whether that's good or not) from perpetual productivity improvement – I think this is why online productivity and life hack gurus are so popular. But for some, it's all about looking like they care about productivity because that's what their job or manager expects. Certainly this was the case for me. Throughout my twenties, I pushed myself to be more "productive" in my career because I thought I had to look like a go-getter to the people who paid me. I put in extra hours and effort, and even enrolled in an online university course to further expand my skills (resulting in me having next to zero free time!). I still like to work hard and do good work, but I no longer push myself to be very good at everything I do. "Competent" is my aim. Doing my paid work to a standard that is "good enough" is not only easier on my stress levels, but my managers continue to report satisfaction with my work.
whstl 3y ago
It's probably not the same experience for everyone, but when I was burned out or depressed, I "had" to cling to the things I could still have some control. Being productive was the main one. It also would distract me from the other issues. Of course, excessive work was causing most of the issues, now it's easy to see. I got burned out when I wasn't in a good place. Having the same experience when you have a stable relationship/friendships/family life, healthy hobbies and not-too-limited finances, is probably much different than what I experienced.
- blurbleblurble 3y ago
  Being burnt out and broke is a whole other level of harrowing.
jowdones 3y ago
Can't speak for everyone but my worry for productivity while on the edge of burnout had nothing to do with sacrificing myself for the company. I was worried for my job, that's it. That falling below some unreasonable threshold of work done would get me fired, while realizing I can't keep up with the amount and speed of required work. Fortunately it was mostly in my head and passive aggressive worked very well in reducing expectations. To a point where I became stressed that I was asked too little. Literally "they" forgot about me for a while. So while enjoying a paycheck for nothing, I realized that cannot last so sadly I became more involved, which lead to more work. At least for the time being I seem to have mastered the screws to throttle productivity and become a classic "do the minimum" loser from the Gervais hierarchy. (Which if you familiar with the concept just means long term sustainable amount and nothing more, nothing less).
H8crilA 3y ago
Imagine you're about to not be able to work for the next 2 years, perhaps longer. Like no work gets done whatsoever, no job for you, nothing gets fixed around the house. People that are burning out are in this situation and subconsciously realize it. That's why recovery usually starts from a full crash against the wall.
- quechimba 3y ago
  I crashed really hard once. I didn't enjoy my life at all before that, I worked 16 hours/day and it somehow wasn't enough. They just gave me more work to do. The doctor put me on 60mg duloxetine and gave me one week sick leave. I couldn't even buy groceries because my mind was broken so I had no clue how to get back to work. I would get lost in the super market and start crying from the confusion and leave. I stayed home for 3-4 months doing absolutely nothing, and got back to work, working 50% but they just gave me more work until I worked 16 hours a day and I couldn't see any brightness in the future. Spent 3 weeks in a psych ward because I was going to end my life. I had a very sophisticated plan and the doctors said depressed people don't make such plans. Anyways, in there I fell in love with a broken girl and I suddenly had a future. She was very broken and it hurt me to see her hurt herself all the time. I worked for 1-2 months until I quit and went to the Peruvian Amazon for 4 months and tried traditional medicines. It really changed me, when I came back I got another job and everything was fine for about 8 months until they restructured the company and things got really stressful. I went to bed on friday and when I woke up it was tuesday. Another doctor put me on sick leave again and they prescribed me other pills, but instead I resigned and went back to Peru. I don't have money but at least I'm sane. For anyone who read this.. listen to your body and get help before you crash. Take vacations often, don't accept overtime. It's not worth it. You're gonna spend all the money you make on recovery. Change jobs if you have to. Find a therapist.
  - ziml77 3y ago
    Yes! Don't neglect vacation time and be sure to take a proper vacation. None of this "I'll be gone but I'm still reachable" bullshit. Lie and say you won't have access to a computer if that's what it takes. And be sure the vacation is long enough. 2 weeks straight is probably the optimal balance between practicality and relaxability. Though in many cases you may be capped at 1 week straight, but that is still far better than no break at all.
cebert 3y ago
Employers don’t care. My father died of pancreatic cancer in November 2021. Then in October 2022, my mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. My dad had a business with financial issues I also had to close and take care to. At the same time, I needed to help my mother with medical treatments and moving into a smaller apartment. Despite these challenges the past two years, I’ve showed up to work consistently and did my best under the circumstances. During my performance review in January, I had a very negative review. I was told my productivity had declined and I “consistently had challenges” the past year. There was no empathy or understanding of my situation. Employers see us as tools to use, abuse, and throw out with little care of us as an individual. I’m doing the best I can.
- Arbortheus 3y ago
  Did you talk about these issues with your line manager? What was their reaction? A good manager will be flexible in these scenarios.
  - cebert 3y ago
    Yes, my manager is aware of what I’m dealing with in my personal life. However, it doesn’t seem like that has any bearing on performance reviews. I can easily see how people dealing with situations like this can face burnout.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > Did you talk about these issues with your line manager? Why? They have less power than you to influence things.
- nine_zeros 3y ago
  > I had a very negative review. I was told my productivity had declined and I “consistently had challenges” the past year. There was no empathy or understanding of my situation. Employers see us as tools to use, abuse, and throw out with little care of us as an individual. I’m doing the best I can. I came here to post specifically about this. I have been there. In the last 1 year, my FIL passed away, grandmother passed away, wife had 2 IVFs and one full-blown miscarriage, Dad was hospitalized for blood sugar spikes, mom was bedridden a few weeks due to blood issues, MIL needed help with property documents and setting up her old age, and my wife's career took a shot because she was a victim of corporate politics. Notice, I haven't talked about myself because I haven't had time to even think about my own well-being. Am I burned out? Likely. What does my employer (and line manager) care about? Why is a risky service being rolled out slowly and why are other reviewers taking a long time to review code. I get a poor performance feedback for cherry-picked instances, thus creating an environment where perfection is required. Walking on eggshells if you will. When someone asks what is wrong with American corporate culture, I empathize. America is an immoral, corrupt and exploitative society.
yawboakye 3y ago
i ask the same question of myself. i haven't experienced a burnout before so that i needed to take a break to recover. i guess it's because i never allowed myself to be dragged to the point of burning out. i have a partner, family, and friends i love who need me to be when they need me. so my simple guide to no is whether any activity compromises my ability to be there for them. i'm very aware of the reality that nothing i do in tech, especially at a company, will be remembered 10 years from now (when even the company and its founders may be forgotten in 30 years or so). that really simplifies a lot for me: would i rather grind on this technology thing or spend time listening to my little brother goof around? play with my nieces? be in the presence of my parents? they're the ones who know who i am, in fact. no a mass of faceless internet souls (however gentle or kind they may be). to hell with overworking ourselves until burnout!
marginalia_nu 3y ago
Acute stress messes with your ability to prioritize well. When you're burnt out, that effect can linger even when you've no reason to be stressed. It can frequently manifest as worrying about small stuff in the presence of a much bigger problem.

racktash 3y ago

Some people definitely do fixate (and derive a sense of purpose, whether that's good or not) from perpetual productivity improvement – I think this is why online productivity and life hack gurus are so popular. But for some, it's all about looking like they care about productivity because that's what their job or manager expects. Certainly this was the case for me. Throughout my twenties, I pushed myself to be more "productive" in my career because I thought I had to look like a go-getter to the people who paid me. I put in extra hours and effort, and even enrolled in an online university course to further expand my skills (resulting in me having next to zero free time!). I still like to work hard and do good work, but I no longer push myself to be very good at everything I do. "Competent" is my aim. Doing my paid work to a standard that is "good enough" is not only easier on my stress levels, but my managers continue to report satisfaction with my work.

whstl 3y ago

It's probably not the same experience for everyone, but when I was burned out or depressed, I "had" to cling to the things I could still have some control. Being productive was the main one. It also would distract me from the other issues. Of course, excessive work was causing most of the issues, now it's easy to see. I got burned out when I wasn't in a good place. Having the same experience when you have a stable relationship/friendships/family life, healthy hobbies and not-too-limited finances, is probably much different than what I experienced.

blurbleblurble 3y ago
Being burnt out and broke is a whole other level of harrowing.

jowdones 3y ago

Can't speak for everyone but my worry for productivity while on the edge of burnout had nothing to do with sacrificing myself for the company. I was worried for my job, that's it. That falling below some unreasonable threshold of work done would get me fired, while realizing I can't keep up with the amount and speed of required work. Fortunately it was mostly in my head and passive aggressive worked very well in reducing expectations. To a point where I became stressed that I was asked too little. Literally "they" forgot about me for a while. So while enjoying a paycheck for nothing, I realized that cannot last so sadly I became more involved, which lead to more work. At least for the time being I seem to have mastered the screws to throttle productivity and become a classic "do the minimum" loser from the Gervais hierarchy. (Which if you familiar with the concept just means long term sustainable amount and nothing more, nothing less).

H8crilA 3y ago

Imagine you're about to not be able to work for the next 2 years, perhaps longer. Like no work gets done whatsoever, no job for you, nothing gets fixed around the house. People that are burning out are in this situation and subconsciously realize it. That's why recovery usually starts from a full crash against the wall.

quechimba 3y ago
I crashed really hard once. I didn't enjoy my life at all before that, I worked 16 hours/day and it somehow wasn't enough. They just gave me more work to do. The doctor put me on 60mg duloxetine and gave me one week sick leave. I couldn't even buy groceries because my mind was broken so I had no clue how to get back to work. I would get lost in the super market and start crying from the confusion and leave. I stayed home for 3-4 months doing absolutely nothing, and got back to work, working 50% but they just gave me more work until I worked 16 hours a day and I couldn't see any brightness in the future. Spent 3 weeks in a psych ward because I was going to end my life. I had a very sophisticated plan and the doctors said depressed people don't make such plans. Anyways, in there I fell in love with a broken girl and I suddenly had a future. She was very broken and it hurt me to see her hurt herself all the time. I worked for 1-2 months until I quit and went to the Peruvian Amazon for 4 months and tried traditional medicines. It really changed me, when I came back I got another job and everything was fine for about 8 months until they restructured the company and things got really stressful. I went to bed on friday and when I woke up it was tuesday. Another doctor put me on sick leave again and they prescribed me other pills, but instead I resigned and went back to Peru. I don't have money but at least I'm sane. For anyone who read this.. listen to your body and get help before you crash. Take vacations often, don't accept overtime. It's not worth it. You're gonna spend all the money you make on recovery. Change jobs if you have to. Find a therapist.
- ziml77 3y ago
  Yes! Don't neglect vacation time and be sure to take a proper vacation. None of this "I'll be gone but I'm still reachable" bullshit. Lie and say you won't have access to a computer if that's what it takes. And be sure the vacation is long enough. 2 weeks straight is probably the optimal balance between practicality and relaxability. Though in many cases you may be capped at 1 week straight, but that is still far better than no break at all.

cebert 3y ago

Employers don’t care. My father died of pancreatic cancer in November 2021. Then in October 2022, my mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. My dad had a business with financial issues I also had to close and take care to. At the same time, I needed to help my mother with medical treatments and moving into a smaller apartment. Despite these challenges the past two years, I’ve showed up to work consistently and did my best under the circumstances. During my performance review in January, I had a very negative review. I was told my productivity had declined and I “consistently had challenges” the past year. There was no empathy or understanding of my situation. Employers see us as tools to use, abuse, and throw out with little care of us as an individual. I’m doing the best I can.

Arbortheus 3y ago
Did you talk about these issues with your line manager? What was their reaction? A good manager will be flexible in these scenarios.
- cebert 3y ago
  Yes, my manager is aware of what I’m dealing with in my personal life. However, it doesn’t seem like that has any bearing on performance reviews. I can easily see how people dealing with situations like this can face burnout.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > Did you talk about these issues with your line manager? Why? They have less power than you to influence things.
nine_zeros 3y ago
> I had a very negative review. I was told my productivity had declined and I “consistently had challenges” the past year. There was no empathy or understanding of my situation. Employers see us as tools to use, abuse, and throw out with little care of us as an individual. I’m doing the best I can. I came here to post specifically about this. I have been there. In the last 1 year, my FIL passed away, grandmother passed away, wife had 2 IVFs and one full-blown miscarriage, Dad was hospitalized for blood sugar spikes, mom was bedridden a few weeks due to blood issues, MIL needed help with property documents and setting up her old age, and my wife's career took a shot because she was a victim of corporate politics. Notice, I haven't talked about myself because I haven't had time to even think about my own well-being. Am I burned out? Likely. What does my employer (and line manager) care about? Why is a risky service being rolled out slowly and why are other reviewers taking a long time to review code. I get a poor performance feedback for cherry-picked instances, thus creating an environment where perfection is required. Walking on eggshells if you will. When someone asks what is wrong with American corporate culture, I empathize. America is an immoral, corrupt and exploitative society.

yawboakye 3y ago

i ask the same question of myself. i haven't experienced a burnout before so that i needed to take a break to recover. i guess it's because i never allowed myself to be dragged to the point of burning out. i have a partner, family, and friends i love who need me to be when they need me. so my simple guide to no is whether any activity compromises my ability to be there for them. i'm very aware of the reality that nothing i do in tech, especially at a company, will be remembered 10 years from now (when even the company and its founders may be forgotten in 30 years or so). that really simplifies a lot for me: would i rather grind on this technology thing or spend time listening to my little brother goof around? play with my nieces? be in the presence of my parents? they're the ones who know who i am, in fact. no a mass of faceless internet souls (however gentle or kind they may be). to hell with overworking ourselves until burnout!

marginalia_nu 3y ago

Acute stress messes with your ability to prioritize well. When you're burnt out, that effect can linger even when you've no reason to be stressed. It can frequently manifest as worrying about small stuff in the presence of a much bigger problem.