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By watching the vintage TV show Miami Vice I learned that many people make a living out of selling an image (one of the cornerstones of Sonny Crockett's policin
by apples_oranges 3y ago
By watching the vintage TV show Miami Vice I learned that many people make a living out of selling an image (one of the cornerstones of Sonny Crockett's policing philosophy). TED comes to mind. Or WEF in Davos. They are all basically just marketing operations. (TED sells the hip/green young futurists and WEF plays the conspiracy angle.) Same with this science stuff here. Of course the professional scientists love the prestige that comes from such a publication, but that's the reason why they are gamed by these publishers in the first place.
- ramraj07 3y agoThis is one case where it’s not just being hip though. Publishing in Nature Science Cell is pretty much a minimum requirement if you want to get tenure track in any top university. I’m out of academia by a few years so not sure if eLife/PLOS Biology is starting to make inroads as acceptable top tier or not. You’re also betting your long term reputation on the reputability of the journal. The best bet is that more of the top scientists commit to only publishing in fully open journals and bury NSC.
- itronitron 3y ago'measuring influence' was established in the science community long, long before it ever became a social media thing.
- psychomugs 3y agoSEO, a precursor to social media influence as a metric, is itself precursed by the academic citation metric.
- mjklin 3y agoIt has been well said that academia is “show business for ugly people”.
- AlbertCory 3y agoI thought that was politics.
- mjklin 3y agoWhy not both?
- Fordec 3y agoDon't mistake self-congratulatory with show-y about academia. Only the home crowd know academics names, politics at least has the public eye on them.
- mjklin 3y agoI feel like this depends on the field. Newer / “hotter” fields (e.g. evo psych) tend to be dominated by rockstars while traditional / staid fields (e.g. linear algebra) have mostly solid and competent practitioners.
- Fordec 3y agoI haven't even heard of evo psych lol, never mind these "rockstars".
- psychomugs 3y agoOf the same vibe: "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."
- ModernMech 3y agoThis doesn't even make sense looking at national politics, which are far more vicious and the stakes are much higher.
- psychomugs 3y agoOf course national politics would be represented by the media as vicious and high-stakes: the media needs vicious and high-stakes messages to keep up viewership as its lifeline. Not even academics are interested in academic politics beyond their own immediate purview of the next publication or deadline.
- ModernMech 3y agoDo you have any first-hand knowledge of academic politics, or can you offer any examples that demonstrate they are particularly "vicious"? When I think of vicious politics, I think of violence, which we see on the national stage. Would you say academic politics are violent, or no? > Not even academics are interested in academic politics beyond their own immediate purview of the next publication or deadline. Can you support this statement?
- psychomugs 3y agoI have a PhD. Students are shackled to dead-end projects, uprooted from their communities by careerist mentors, and generally fucked over - in at least one case, literally - by their PIs. Scooping - having work similar to yours get published by another party - is a pervasive enough fear that reviewers can block publications to guard their own moats. Publication venues choose arbitrary selectiveness criteria, e.g. conference acceptance rates around 24.3%, to maintain an aura of high quality despite most papers being useless apart from bolstering citation metrics. Large projects that require many person-years of effort can only be done by already-established hype-leading "paper mill" labs where several grad students rotate who gets first author credit - the main measure for graduating. All of this accumulates into student depression and academic burnout that leaves academics alienated from each other, let alone other departments. As my advisor put it, academia is a pyramid scheme.
- dalbasal 3y ago>basically just marketing operations. "Just" might be a dangerous reduction here... You can reduce a lot of things to "just marketing." Prestige unversities attract students, teachers, researchers & grants with prestige Just marketing. Publications, conferences... also. Whatetthus pretige/marketing/perception thing is, it's very central to how we operate.
- boppo1 3y ago>WEF plays the conspiracy angle What, you're saying that's intentional? What's the WEF business model, anyway?
- suddenclarity 3y agoIt's funded by its members. So they basically pay to meet and promote their business to invited leaders and politicians. I guess you can make an argument that the more exclusive and mythical you can make it, the more likely are businesses to pay to participate.
- selimthegrim 3y agoThe new version of the Bohemian Grove or Bilderberg
- m348e912 3y agoYes thats globalism, not conspiracy. (from their perspective)
- hgsgm 3y agoIs Harvard or Supreme an "intentional conspiracy" or just exclusive? Words have meanings.
- suddenclarity 3y agoI'm not sure what your comment is referring to. It doesn't seem related to the discussion.