6 ms·

Based on the LLM-produced stuff I've seen online I have to think a market will emerge soon for real writing from actual people. How much reshuffling of stuff al

Based on the LLM-produced stuff I've seen online I have to think a market will emerge soon for real writing from actual people. How much reshuffling of stuff already written a hundred times can we put up with? The bar seems pretty low if you only have to compete with ChatGPT.

ofalkaed 4y ago
>I have to think a market will emerge soon for real writing from actual people That market already exists and has existed for quite some time, you make it sound like literature has always been an AI dominated market and salt of the earth people are finally about to get their chance. I assume this is not what you meant and that I am missing something or possibly you know something that I don't and my perception of reality is fundamentally flawed. The latter is more fun but I suspect the former to be more accurate. More to the point, I think there is a good sized market out there for AI writing, many who are into technology are going to want to read what AI can produce; this will take some writing away from people but it will be minor and most of the writing jobs which AI will take are those that the bulk of writers complain about, those jobs they say destroy their souls and rob them of their artistic freedom, the contract jobs.
- gregjor 4y ago
  Truman Capote once said (of actual writer Jack Kerouac), "That's not writing, that's typing." Junk like Buzzfeed news and similar sites that just regurgitate other content existed before ChatGPT, I guess those serve some purpose, though I've always thought they mainly exist to host ads and to trap people in a maze of links and pop-ups. ChatGPT can write that junk just as well as a person. At this point LLM-produced "writing" sticks out because it has no voice, it just repeats and walks around some point derived from the prompt, like someone summarizing Wikipedia articles. I will just click off of that stuff until I find something written by a real person. I hope more people do the same. The novelty will wear off sooner or later and we'll recognize LLM-generated writing as nothing more than vapidly useless filler. In a culture schooled with writing presented as a chore, where the number of words in an essay matters more than an original thought, LLMs promise to relieve a lot of people of the burden of thinking and writing.
  - ofalkaed 4y ago
    And Truman Capote said that regarding a novel which Kerouac worked on for nearly a decade. The scroll for On The Road was the performance of the piece which he had been rehearsing for all those years and had worked everything out before he sat down at the typewriter. Everything but the final form was known which he wanted to be more natural and less refined. The idea that he just sat down and wrote it is folklore, it is fairly impressive in how cohesive it is, especially in style/voice. Capote is not a great appeal to authority regarding literary merit, he was well known for his professional jealousy and inflammatory comments.
    - gregjor 4y ago
      I quoted Capote ironically, not as an authority on writing, or typing. I would call what ChatGPT produces typing as opposed to writing, which brought Capote's quip to mind.
      - ofalkaed 4y ago
        When you provide a quote whose general thrust seems to support your general thrust, and attribute it for both speaker and target, and that speaker's general thrust seems to support your general thrust, and the names dropped essentially being the poster boys for the two sides of that general thrust it is difficult to ignore, especially when the offered alternative is forced and/or poorly executed irony. But I guess you were only typing and not writing?
        gregjor 4y ago
        I gave context (attribution) because Capote's quip dates from the late 1950s, and it seemed likely few people today have heard it or know the context. Capote's criticism of Kerouac seems funny and relevant (to me, anyway) without the context. Whether one thinks Capote got it right about Kerouac, or just liked to stir up shit to polish his own image, makes no difference to the humor. The irony comes from me using the quote not to criticize Kerouac, or any actual human writer, as Capote originally intended.
  - 4y ago
- actuallyalys 4y ago
  I assume what they mean is the existing market will have to become explicitly labeled and advertise its advantages over AI-generated content.
xg15 4y ago
> How much reshuffling of stuff already written a hundred times can we put up with? I mean, if you look at the barrage of reboots, franchise installments and "memberberry" sequels that make up the bulk of cinema blockbusters...
- gregjor 4y ago
  Good point. Every superhero movie looks the same to me. I always assumed that was due to my age. The thought of LLM-generated "Marvel Universe" sequels going on forever seems depressing, though I long ago learned to just ignore that Hollywood compost bin.
  - xg15 4y ago
    If it were just Marvel. My impression is, we'll soon have every movie that was moderately impactful in millennial childhoods be reanimated in some endless loop of seqels or turned into a "cinematic universe". Probably with LLMs streamlining and automating that process.
    - gregjor 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - Capricorn2481 4y ago
        Anyone unironically using that word might as well be a robot themselves
        mkr-hn 4y ago
        It's another in a long line of front-line reactionary thought-terminating clichés. It replaced "SJW" https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fg%2F11cmgnhggj,%2Fg%2F11ddxplprk&hl=en https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%...
greenie_beans 4y ago
this is what i've been saying. the good writers will become even more valuable. if everybody grows up not learning to write, then the ones who learn to write will be well positioned.
- mkr-hn 4y ago
  As always, there's a good classic sci-fi story on this subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_(novella) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_(novella) Except kids learn everything with tapes, updated and improved using new knowledge created by a rare few, beamed into their heads rather than depending on LLMs. It's also a Stargate episode: https://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/learning-curve/ https://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/learning-curve/
fuzzfactor 4y ago
The problem might be quantity over quality. If the quality is only half as good but the AI can put out orders of magnitude more material faster, that could be the direction that may be preferred by some content publishers.
- gregjor 3y ago
  We can easily measure quantity, but how do you define or measure quality when it comes to writing, or imitation of writing?
  - fuzzfactor 3y ago
    I think that would have to be in the eyes of the beholder :\ Naturally, there's no accounting for taste. Artificially, we'll just have to see what passes.

ofalkaed 4y ago

>I have to think a market will emerge soon for real writing from actual people That market already exists and has existed for quite some time, you make it sound like literature has always been an AI dominated market and salt of the earth people are finally about to get their chance. I assume this is not what you meant and that I am missing something or possibly you know something that I don't and my perception of reality is fundamentally flawed. The latter is more fun but I suspect the former to be more accurate. More to the point, I think there is a good sized market out there for AI writing, many who are into technology are going to want to read what AI can produce; this will take some writing away from people but it will be minor and most of the writing jobs which AI will take are those that the bulk of writers complain about, those jobs they say destroy their souls and rob them of their artistic freedom, the contract jobs.

gregjor 4y ago
Truman Capote once said (of actual writer Jack Kerouac), "That's not writing, that's typing." Junk like Buzzfeed news and similar sites that just regurgitate other content existed before ChatGPT, I guess those serve some purpose, though I've always thought they mainly exist to host ads and to trap people in a maze of links and pop-ups. ChatGPT can write that junk just as well as a person. At this point LLM-produced "writing" sticks out because it has no voice, it just repeats and walks around some point derived from the prompt, like someone summarizing Wikipedia articles. I will just click off of that stuff until I find something written by a real person. I hope more people do the same. The novelty will wear off sooner or later and we'll recognize LLM-generated writing as nothing more than vapidly useless filler. In a culture schooled with writing presented as a chore, where the number of words in an essay matters more than an original thought, LLMs promise to relieve a lot of people of the burden of thinking and writing.
- ofalkaed 4y ago
  And Truman Capote said that regarding a novel which Kerouac worked on for nearly a decade. The scroll for On The Road was the performance of the piece which he had been rehearsing for all those years and had worked everything out before he sat down at the typewriter. Everything but the final form was known which he wanted to be more natural and less refined. The idea that he just sat down and wrote it is folklore, it is fairly impressive in how cohesive it is, especially in style/voice. Capote is not a great appeal to authority regarding literary merit, he was well known for his professional jealousy and inflammatory comments.
  - gregjor 4y ago
    I quoted Capote ironically, not as an authority on writing, or typing. I would call what ChatGPT produces typing as opposed to writing, which brought Capote's quip to mind.
    - ofalkaed 4y ago
      When you provide a quote whose general thrust seems to support your general thrust, and attribute it for both speaker and target, and that speaker's general thrust seems to support your general thrust, and the names dropped essentially being the poster boys for the two sides of that general thrust it is difficult to ignore, especially when the offered alternative is forced and/or poorly executed irony. But I guess you were only typing and not writing?
      - gregjor 4y ago
        I gave context (attribution) because Capote's quip dates from the late 1950s, and it seemed likely few people today have heard it or know the context. Capote's criticism of Kerouac seems funny and relevant (to me, anyway) without the context. Whether one thinks Capote got it right about Kerouac, or just liked to stir up shit to polish his own image, makes no difference to the humor. The irony comes from me using the quote not to criticize Kerouac, or any actual human writer, as Capote originally intended.
- 4y ago
actuallyalys 4y ago
I assume what they mean is the existing market will have to become explicitly labeled and advertise its advantages over AI-generated content.

xg15 4y ago

> How much reshuffling of stuff already written a hundred times can we put up with? I mean, if you look at the barrage of reboots, franchise installments and "memberberry" sequels that make up the bulk of cinema blockbusters...

gregjor 4y ago
Good point. Every superhero movie looks the same to me. I always assumed that was due to my age. The thought of LLM-generated "Marvel Universe" sequels going on forever seems depressing, though I long ago learned to just ignore that Hollywood compost bin.
- xg15 4y ago
  If it were just Marvel. My impression is, we'll soon have every movie that was moderately impactful in millennial childhoods be reanimated in some endless loop of seqels or turned into a "cinematic universe". Probably with LLMs streamlining and automating that process.
  - gregjor 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Capricorn2481 4y ago
      Anyone unironically using that word might as well be a robot themselves
      - mkr-hn 4y ago
        It's another in a long line of front-line reactionary thought-terminating clichés. It replaced "SJW" https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%2Fg%2F11cmgnhggj,%2Fg%2F11ddxplprk&hl=en https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%...

greenie_beans 4y ago

this is what i've been saying. the good writers will become even more valuable. if everybody grows up not learning to write, then the ones who learn to write will be well positioned.

mkr-hn 4y ago
As always, there's a good classic sci-fi story on this subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_(novella) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_(novella) Except kids learn everything with tapes, updated and improved using new knowledge created by a rare few, beamed into their heads rather than depending on LLMs. It's also a Stargate episode: https://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/learning-curve/ https://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/learning-curve/

fuzzfactor 4y ago

The problem might be quantity over quality. If the quality is only half as good but the AI can put out orders of magnitude more material faster, that could be the direction that may be preferred by some content publishers.

gregjor 3y ago
We can easily measure quantity, but how do you define or measure quality when it comes to writing, or imitation of writing?
- fuzzfactor 3y ago
  I think that would have to be in the eyes of the beholder :\ Naturally, there's no accounting for taste. Artificially, we'll just have to see what passes.