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Yo, dang: ITB got flagged and killed for a fair enough question, anyway I can vouch for his comment? ITB > Were you a troublemaker ? I might've been a bit of

by yarg 3y ago

Yo, dang: ITB got flagged and killed for a fair enough question, anyway I can vouch for his comment? ITB > Were you a troublemaker ? I might've been a bit of a disagreeable cunt, but I was never fucking Hitler.

yarg 3y ago
Regarding the question of victim blaming (a comment also brutally murdered), sometimes it's a sane question to ask: if you never look into the contributing factors of a situation you can never stop it from happening again. Put your pretensions about the sacred nature of life aside and understand that children are a pain in the arse to have, and the disagreeable son of disagreeable parents even more so. But I maintain to this day that I was never really an arsehole. Also, if people stop having kids we're going just as extinct as if we have too many. Learn a bit of moderation. Considering that, we need to make having kids a more viable option than it is (and for a lot of the most useful people in society).
- em-bee 3y ago
  everything that bothers me about my kids they learned from me and my partner. and everything bad about how we treat our kids we got from our parents. same goes for some of the good things too. but i hope that i manage to skip some of the bad things i experienced from my parents and add some good things that they didn't do so my kids have a better experience than me. and i hope the trend continues.
  - yarg 3y ago
    It doesn't have to be that way: the best way to learn is by not repeating the mistakes of others, but we overpersonalise the situation if cute and innocent puppies were involved, and especially if we were the puppies. Compare that to the situation where you saw some idiot kid fuck himself up at school, and immediately learned not to do that. Why learn from the latter but not the former? The stakes in either situation are equally high. As to how we act, in the negation of what not to do there is the freedom to think and be creative; just be reasonable about it.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      it takes some time to recognize what are mistakes. i didn't notice many things until i saw my kids do them and only that made me stop doing that myself.
      - yarg 3y ago
        I generally had more of a problem when they over-reacted with my little sister.
        em-bee 3y ago
        i think it is easier to see when it's happening to someone else and not yourself.
  - yarg 3y ago
    As for me, if I ever sort my shit out and get around to having kids, I'll try to teach them to challenge me when and only when I'm being unreasonable - and how to tell the difference between. Then we'll navigate interpersonal difficulties as they inevitably come.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      children have a very different idea of what's reasonable. for example my kids find it unreasonable that i don't allow them to take sodas and junk-food to eat in school, when many other kids bring that. they also don't understand that they can't watch tv and play on the computer all day, which is especially difficult because they see me on the computer all day due to my work. nevertheless, having kids is very rewarding, so i hope you'll get there some day.
      - yarg 3y ago
        So what? I'll fat shame the chubby little bastards.
      - watwut 3y ago
        Yeah, but when you keep explaining the issue, they eventually figure it out. And them challenging these are opportunity to explain again.
knaik94 3y ago
From my experience, people that respond with that kind of question aren't asking in good faith. They struggle to sympathize with the fact that parents can make mistakes and be wrong. I also don't agree with you that the implied question about victim blaming is sane to ask when the victim in question is a child, and the power imbalance is so large. I am under no illusions about how fun children are to raise. I can't say for sure what the intent behind the questions were because I didn't see them, but I personally do not give them the benefit of the doubt.
- yarg 3y ago
  Honestly, I'm less concerned with whether or not a comment is made in good faith, as whether or not it fosters interesting or useful conversation. Questions made in bad faith generally get rebutted (and downvoted) but bad faith arguments are really only fundamentally uninteresting if they've already been so thoroughly rebutted that there's no further conversation to have. And the fundamental truth about it is that our society isn't even mature enough to ask the questions - which is why they even work as bad faith rhetorical devices in the first place. But either way, I wouldn't go as far as asked in bad faith - his comment was more snarky or snide. But either way, not uninteresting.
  - knaik94 3y ago
    The reason why I called it bad faith is because I am not seeing the possiblity of a positive follow up to your response to that question. In my experience, it's usually a way for them to make a rebuttal that shows a larger lack of sympathy. More than a few times the follow up to me acknowledging that I was likely difficult to raise was them using that to dismiss or invalidate the seriousness of situation. I am not sure why the default assumption someone would have is that you failed to see the situation from your parent's perspective. But I also recognize that I may just personally be tired of having to respond to that question. If the discussion goes on long enough, one of the more interesting conclusions is the classical ethics question, what kind of net benefit will justify an evil act? Not really on topic for HN though. https://fee.org/articles/why-the-ethics-of-would-you-kill-baby-hitler-are-more-important-than-you-probably-think/ https://fee.org/articles/why-the-ethics-of-would-you-kill-ba...

by yarg 3y ago

yarg 3y ago

Regarding the question of victim blaming (a comment also brutally murdered), sometimes it's a sane question to ask: if you never look into the contributing factors of a situation you can never stop it from happening again. Put your pretensions about the sacred nature of life aside and understand that children are a pain in the arse to have, and the disagreeable son of disagreeable parents even more so. But I maintain to this day that I was never really an arsehole. Also, if people stop having kids we're going just as extinct as if we have too many. Learn a bit of moderation. Considering that, we need to make having kids a more viable option than it is (and for a lot of the most useful people in society).

em-bee 3y ago
everything that bothers me about my kids they learned from me and my partner. and everything bad about how we treat our kids we got from our parents. same goes for some of the good things too. but i hope that i manage to skip some of the bad things i experienced from my parents and add some good things that they didn't do so my kids have a better experience than me. and i hope the trend continues.
- yarg 3y ago
  It doesn't have to be that way: the best way to learn is by not repeating the mistakes of others, but we overpersonalise the situation if cute and innocent puppies were involved, and especially if we were the puppies. Compare that to the situation where you saw some idiot kid fuck himself up at school, and immediately learned not to do that. Why learn from the latter but not the former? The stakes in either situation are equally high. As to how we act, in the negation of what not to do there is the freedom to think and be creative; just be reasonable about it.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    it takes some time to recognize what are mistakes. i didn't notice many things until i saw my kids do them and only that made me stop doing that myself.
    - yarg 3y ago
      I generally had more of a problem when they over-reacted with my little sister.
      - em-bee 3y ago
        i think it is easier to see when it's happening to someone else and not yourself.
- yarg 3y ago
  As for me, if I ever sort my shit out and get around to having kids, I'll try to teach them to challenge me when and only when I'm being unreasonable - and how to tell the difference between. Then we'll navigate interpersonal difficulties as they inevitably come.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    children have a very different idea of what's reasonable. for example my kids find it unreasonable that i don't allow them to take sodas and junk-food to eat in school, when many other kids bring that. they also don't understand that they can't watch tv and play on the computer all day, which is especially difficult because they see me on the computer all day due to my work. nevertheless, having kids is very rewarding, so i hope you'll get there some day.
    - yarg 3y ago
      So what? I'll fat shame the chubby little bastards.
    - watwut 3y ago
      Yeah, but when you keep explaining the issue, they eventually figure it out. And them challenging these are opportunity to explain again.

knaik94 3y ago

From my experience, people that respond with that kind of question aren't asking in good faith. They struggle to sympathize with the fact that parents can make mistakes and be wrong. I also don't agree with you that the implied question about victim blaming is sane to ask when the victim in question is a child, and the power imbalance is so large. I am under no illusions about how fun children are to raise. I can't say for sure what the intent behind the questions were because I didn't see them, but I personally do not give them the benefit of the doubt.

yarg 3y ago
Honestly, I'm less concerned with whether or not a comment is made in good faith, as whether or not it fosters interesting or useful conversation. Questions made in bad faith generally get rebutted (and downvoted) but bad faith arguments are really only fundamentally uninteresting if they've already been so thoroughly rebutted that there's no further conversation to have. And the fundamental truth about it is that our society isn't even mature enough to ask the questions - which is why they even work as bad faith rhetorical devices in the first place. But either way, I wouldn't go as far as asked in bad faith - his comment was more snarky or snide. But either way, not uninteresting.
- knaik94 3y ago
  The reason why I called it bad faith is because I am not seeing the possiblity of a positive follow up to your response to that question. In my experience, it's usually a way for them to make a rebuttal that shows a larger lack of sympathy. More than a few times the follow up to me acknowledging that I was likely difficult to raise was them using that to dismiss or invalidate the seriousness of situation. I am not sure why the default assumption someone would have is that you failed to see the situation from your parent's perspective. But I also recognize that I may just personally be tired of having to respond to that question. If the discussion goes on long enough, one of the more interesting conclusions is the classical ethics question, what kind of net benefit will justify an evil act? Not really on topic for HN though. https://fee.org/articles/why-the-ethics-of-would-you-kill-baby-hitler-are-more-important-than-you-probably-think/ https://fee.org/articles/why-the-ethics-of-would-you-kill-ba...